Lathe Tools

[Ian B]

Bill,

You're absolutely right about the 4 way toolposts - they're hopeless! I tried using them for a while and gave up, even with short-shanked carbide tools. The tools not in use always get in the way, and are a really easy way to gash your hand wide open. Plus, if you put a boring tool of any length in there, you only have one other useful station. I chucked my 4 way toolpost out, best mod I made to the lathe!

For hobby stuff, as you say, one tool at a time works fine. You soon get to know your shim packs, and having a small height gauge living permanently on the topslide (if it's a flat topped one) helps a lot. I'd guess that tool changing & sharpening takes up about 10 - 15% of total lathe time.

For anything more productive, get a proper quick change toolpost - my present lathe has a T3 Dickson system. These allow really quick, dead accurate tool swaps. Trouble is, you never have enough toolholders...

I guess it comes down to how fast you want to work, and how much cash you have over to achieve that.

Ian

 

[aametalmaster]

Here are 4 pics of various cuts with different cutters. I have to be able to do any job that walks in the door so i don't use one specific cutter i use them all. HSS ground to special shapes, carbide triangles and some welded carbides. I made my own tool block to suit and i haven't found anything i can't do with it and its rock solid...Bob
Pic 1 turning large OD with boring bar
Pic 2 Outside threading
Pic 3 Milling slot with tool block as holder
Pic 4 Boring hole

 

[aametalmaster]

4 more pics...Bob Lots more here. >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbend10k/
Pic 1 Cutting groove in pulley blank with HSS
Pic 2 Cutting pulley edge with HSS
Pic 3 Special HSS bit for turning a tapered shoulder in a hole
Pic 4 Turning with an insert holder

 

[snowcat]

As I mentioned I bought a compleate set of kennametal tooling, and would never go back... as bill said set up a tool DRO a base in and you know that nothing will change as long as the tips good, Iv cut upto 50tho cuts on 3" bars at 500rpm throwing out chip that's so hot that it sticks to yer skin even with suds running... once there blunt its 20 seconds to twist to another edge.. agree on the tool post's, Im a big fan of the colchester quick posts and run them on the two main lathes... The old capstans do little more these days than large sized boreing so rarely have posts bolted on...

It really does depend on the work your doing, but for speed and acuracy tip tools everyday...

 

[bill_gj]

Anybody using roller boxes these days?

 

[aametalmaster]

Here is some pics of me cutting .500 thou off a 1" square CRS bar on my SB10K with the whole insert buried in the metal. The lathe is running in backgear, lots of power there...Bob

 

[aametalmaster]

Anybody using roller boxes these days?

What is a roller box?...Bob

 

[Ian B]

Bob,

A roller box is normally only used on turret or capstan lathes - used mostly to reduce the diameter of round bar. It's a combined cutting tool and 2 rollers. The rollers support the back of the work to stop it deflecting, allowing a heavy cut to be taken.

You find them on fleabay sometimes:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Box-Tool-Roll...ageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem?_trksid=p1638.m122

Can't say I've ever seen one used on a centre lathe, you'd probably do the same thing with a single point tool and a traveling steady.

Ian

 

[snowcat]

Anybody using roller boxes these days?

Iv a set for my old ward, which is tiptoeing towards the scrap.......recent years its been used for little more than an abour press...

Fancy an old ward, bill?????

 

[aametalmaster]

Thanks Ian now i know...Bob

 

[MrFluffy]

The other trouble with 4 way toolposts is by the time a elderly somewhat ******** with lathe comes to you, the locating pins that ensure it repeats/indexes and stay solid are all worn oval and require boring out and reaming, and until you get round to it they can creep under heavy loads. On my first lathe I spent ages wondering why when taking a heavy cut my accuracy went to crap, only to measure the toolpost slowly rotating under heavy load one day. Ive also ragged my knuckles on it a few times too...

I have a tripan 111 on the smaller lathe Im converting to cnc, and Im saving up for a quick change for the harrison after the experience... Harrison has a 4 way, but I milled a slot into the base so it fits in the teeslot toolpost mount and can't rotate at all for now. I have a adapted turret toolpost for it that takes 6 tools at once and rotates to any angular displacement you want, or click indexes to true, but that tends to get in the way too and mostly sits on the shelf. Shiney and impressive looking but as much use as a chocolate fireguard...

For people still using shims in a 4way, I pack a tool to height then elastic band it to the tool after the job. Then I can just grab it and have it set right already. Shimstock is cheap...


Ive also found myself making up weird toolholders for inserts of late, particulary boring bars out of old halfshafts and the like. That way, once ive milled the pocket at the right angle the tool geometry should be right even if I break the insert and replace it. And I can make them with monster rigidity one off for a job...

Cant wait for my shaper to arrive, I have plans for making some more holders with it...

 

[malcolm]

If that a half-shaft, Malcolm?

No worse - a steering shaft. Just a practice though - ended up doing this.

Really handy photos on this thread today - can see what all the different shaped tools are for!.

Haven't bought any tooling or even used the lathe since the first post. Haven't really done anything useful since then. HSS it is, no suds pump, and hide them from anyone else who might want to use the lathe.

 

[snowcat]

fluff the CNC conversation sounds interesting, a kit or a one off build.... Id like a turning center myself but a good runner is way off budget....... Id be interested to CNC that old magic eye profiler, then it might actualy be of some use...

Quite a few of the model engineers use a dab of threadlock on the gauge steel when they havent got quickchange toolposts, the elastic band sounds just as good....

 

[rtbcomp]

No worse - a steering shaft.

Need to be a bit careful; non-standard welded steering components could fail an MOT.

 

[aametalmaster]

Cant wait for my shaper to arrive, I have plans for making some more holders with it...

I just bought a small 7" SB shaper but i need to build a stand for it. I got it dirt cheap too. 300 bucks US...Bob

 

[Ian B]

To all those who have, or are getting a shaper - well done! Really enjoyable machines to use, dead cheap to run (they use large-sized lathe tools which you can grind freehand instead of milling cutters).

Great for hogging large amounts of metal off, also for cutting splines, internal & external.

Many shapers can "swallow" a shaft. This isn't obvious at first glance, but if you face the clapper box and sight beneath the ram, you may well see the back wall of the shop. I have an Elliott 4M, 18" stroke, and it'll swallow about a 2 1/2" diameter shaft. makes key cutting easier.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/1003/IanBartlett/?action=view&current=Shaper_04.jpg

€140, the dealer was about to send it to the scrapyard!

Just watch your fingers...

Ian

 

[bill_gj]

140 Euro - that's about £100 !!! I can't believe he would scrap a decent machine like that.
Isn't there a lot of engineering type interest in the Netherlands?

 

[snowcat]

Not suprised at all thats scrap, my old capstans are worth more as scrap than as machines....

 

[Ian B]

Bill,

Maybe this machine is a bit too big for the average home shop machinist, and it's 3 phase which cuts a lot of hobbyists out. Few professional machine shops run shapers anymore, so - luckily for me - the dealer couldn't get rid of it to anyone.

Oddly enough, he had a really tired, shagged out roundhead Colchester lathe that he was asking £1500 for. Looked to be worth about 20% of that. Strange market here.

He tells me the shaper was owned for about 50 years by a Dutch state railways workshop. It seems like the only thing that happened to it in that period was it received a coat of blue paint (why do people paint nice grey machines blue? some clown did that to my Harrison lathe too...)

Wasn't a bad price, considering it came with a vise too. It's a delight to use.

Ian

 

[snowcat]

Bill,


Oddly enough, he had a really tired, shagged out roundhead Colchester lathe that he was asking £1500 for. Looked to be worth about 20% of that. Strange market here.


Ian

The small colchesters always make good money, students, masters upto shortbed triumphs, all will run on phase converters and will fit in a garage.........., same with Harrison's, myfords and others.....

I had a real hunt round to get hold of a decent master and ended up getting it ex universty.... However the big 2 Herbert lathes I was given the guy said if I wanted to shift 7 tons of machine it was mine...... similar story with my radial arm, and bank of drills....... Its the hobby market that holds the price of the old machines up...