Lathe Tools

[malcolm]

Just a thought - anyone here got a lathe? I have an ancient old thing (see the photo) which came with a big box of used lathe tools which are almost all chipped and useless. Thinking of picking up some new ones.

Now I'm new to lathing. I'm not altogether sure which tool to use. I've found Chronos but they make the fatal mistake of not saying what they want to sell me so I'm baffled. I want to do basic turning and facing but why so many tool options?

Also what does everyone do for lubrication? The sud pump on my lathe is broken and I've been using cutting fluid, but that seems to be scraped off quite readily.

Finally for a bonus point, I read it is possible to cut splines (broach) manually by sticking the shaft in the chuck and manually moving the tool up and down. It was working well until I broke the tool. Any suggestions for a tool that would survive this mistreatment and cut 60 degree pointed groves?

Any advice or links towards the answers much appreciated.

 

[Drains]

Ooh, you want to fix the suds pump malc. How about the pump out of an old washing machine?

And Paul's got a shaper he wants you to take away, for your broaching

 

[Welderpaul]

Malcolm,

The brazed-tip lathe tools in the link are next to useless, they only last for a short time, as the cutting edges tend to dull very quickly. Sharpening them is a pain - ok for one off jobs, and only really much cop with loads of cutting fluid!
Have a look at these on ebay from marypoppinsbag 160147656856. We have a few of these with the replaceable tips and they perform very well, even when cutting dry. The tips have three cutting edges and can be replaced cheaply without paying to replace the whole tool. Other than that, we buy the Kennametal or sandvick ones - the cross section of the tool may be a bit large to fit in your tool holder, but we have in the past machined them down with a surface grinder to fit them in. This make of tool are the dogs danglies.
Water-based suds are the best for coolant, the suds need to flood the contact point between tool and workpiece to keep the tip cool and wash away swarf, also produces a much better finish. Cutting oil tends to smoke a lot, and costs a fortune to use in the quantities that should really be used. New pump, or fix the old one!
Sliding the tool along a workpiece aint gonna work to broach out a slot, it would take forever and probably chip the tool and put stress on the leadscrew of the lathe. Let me know what your trying to make, i am sure we could machine it for you if you wanted. (Shaper also for sale...)

 

[malcolm]

The suds pump will be important then

I looked up Shapers on wikipedia - they look much too complicated for what I'm doing. Looked up Lathe as well to see if they had any insights. They did: "Not to be confused with Lath, a thin piece of wood." So that's where I've been going wrong.

Here's a pic of my practice splining effort. There's probably some potential in the method, but my tooling wasn't cutting.

 

[rusty69bus]

i got a chronos mixed replacable tip set there ok but do as welderpaul says get some named brand ones, mine are ok but difficult getting some replacment tips.

useful info....http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/Tables/Mech1.htm

 

[malcolm]

Thanks Paul. My other alternative having searched the net a little further is to buy a couple of shafts with splines at one end and weld them together with a piece of tube plug welded on. That might be the most sensible.

Miss Poppins stuff looks excellent. My tool holder looks like it will take just under 1 1/8" but smaller is cool as I have some shims to get the height right. Does she sell replacement tips too?

Where do you get the suds? I'll have some cleaning out to do as my sud tank is full of oily goo.

 

[Welderpaul]

buy a couple of shafts with splines at one end and weld them together with a piece of tube plug welded on.

That sounds like the ideal solution to avoid machining, you just need to ensure they are truely aligned. welding them together will pull them about a bit and might distort. Might be better to drill the ends out, tap, and connect together with threaded rod (Can all be done on your lathe) Whats it for anyway?

Mary P might not always have the tips listed, but i have sent her an email in the past and she sends them out next day - Decent seller.
We get suds from our consumables supplier, i have a feeling you can buy suds on ebay as well.

Edit: yes it's on ebay - 300142326800 We buy 25 litre drums of the stuff!

 

[Hitch]

Water soluable cutting oil, such as Lactuca is a great all rounder, for lathes, mills, saws...

As for tooling, have a browse of J&L Industrial.

Complete online catalogue, flus regular sale flyers (bottom right)

 

[Hitch]

Dohhh, heres the link....

http://www.jlindustrial.co.uk/cgi/insrhm

 

[rtbcomp]

I don't know what size shafts you need, but you can get nice splined shafts from car steering systems out of the scrappy.

 

[aametalmaster]

I wouldn't worry too much about fixing the pump unless you are running production on some exotic metal. I have 4 metal lathes and don't use fluid on any of them. I have run lathes at work for 30 years and also never ran fluid, most of them 8-12 hrs a day. So start cutting while you fix the pump. Here is my Yahoo group link for some good ideas and some easy projects if interested. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbend10k/
One easy project is the cross slide hole driller which is perfect for making small parts with set screw holes because the part never leaves the lathe. Plus it can be turned 90* and used with a degree wheel to do lots of faceplate type drilling, like brake rotors if the lathe is big enough...Bob

 

[snowcat]

I bit the bullit a few years back and got me proper kennametal tool holders and tip tools, some biggens for the big and some smaller ones for the master, Each tool was around the £50 mark with a 10 or so inserts, the diffrence it makes not only a huge difrence in time but also finish, You can run fast hot big cuts with them. and i have no problems parting off with a tipped tool!!. J&L have a good line in them.

 

[malcolm]

Bob - I've never been very good at those group things - is there a way of simplifying them so you can view the threads like in a forum? I never seem to be able to find the start of a thread to find out what the question was.

How on earth did you get your lathe in the main picture so shiny? I was embarrassed into taking mine apart and giving it a good wire brush in the parts washer today, then a light oil. My metalwork still looks rust coloured, though I finally got around to splashing a bit of paint on it and it looks mich nicer.

I'm guessing I'd be better with a 1 inch tool rather than the 1/4 inch. Those dudes Hitachimad posted are pricy, and there's that big range of options again. If I were to only get one for levelling the end of a bar and taking a little off the diameter (and maybe a couple of spare inserts) which one would I get?

Here's a much cleaned up and improved lathe (with ebay photo finish).

 

[Drains]

Much better. I like the streamlined tailstock Malc, does it spin fast?

And where's the frog - been in the washing machine and now hangin on the line?

 

[aametalmaster]

malcolm, I had the pics on yahoo for anyone to see but i had to move them and i haven't really found where i put them so i am missing 1,000 pics. I don't really pay too much attention with the group i just use it to store my project pics and info i have to share. I would like a forum but don't know how to go about getting one.
My lathe was filthy also. I washed it down with mineral spirits but most of the bright metalwork was still bright. Every time i use it i spray down the bright areas with WD-40 to keep it nice because it is in my basement that is damp. My other 3 are in my shop. Some people don't like WD-40 but i do and i have only found 1 stain in the metal from using it. Here is another good place to look at lathes and Tony did a nice job at setting this up plus he may be one of your neighbors...Bob
http://www.lathes.co.uk/

 

[Welderpaul]

You've done a stirling job fettling that lathe up to workshop standards. I always think the drab machine-grey paint makes it look the dogs danglies - good as new!

 

[MrFluffy]

Ive got two kennemetal tipped tool holders, one to hold the diamond shapes that gives you 4 cutting edges per insert to use, and a second one to hold slotting inserts for screwcutting, slotting etc. If its a really bizzare shaped tool I need I grind one of the zillion blunt oddly shaped ones that came with my first lathe.
Sadly my main lathe is poorly at the moment, so its under surgery, although its not looking good for it long term... My suds pump hasnt ran for years either, its a good way to get wet when the jet hits the chuck. On the mill I use flood cooling, as it seems to get a bit upset and hot when I try to dry cut stuff. Call me odd, but I like the smell of soluble oil


AAmetalmaser, have our paths crossed on PM? I seem to remember seeing your alias there..

 

[aametalmaster]

Yes i am on the pratical machinist group also. I am also the welding mod there as well as on millerwelds.com ....Bob

 

[Ian B]

Malcolm,

On lathe tooling; I've been using lathes for about 35 years, all hobby stuff. For most of that time, I've used high speed steel tools and no flood coolant. Just a pot of oil and a paint brush, or WD40 if it's aluminium that I'm turning. Brass, bronze & cast iron you turn dry.

High speed steel (HSS) is much more forgiving than carbide tips, and cheaper. You can very easily grind your own tools with a 6" double ended bench grinder to whatever shape you please. There are enough instructions on the web to help here.

I have coolant on my present lathe, and I use it occasionally. Messy stuff. Tipped carbide tools look very tempting, but you'd be amazed at how often they don't do what you want. You can't regrind them, they're pretty delicate and (compared to HSS) not cheap, even from Ebay.

Why not buy a handful of HSS blanks, look for 5% - 8% cobalt ones if you can find them. For that lathe, you'd be ok with 3/8" or 1/2" square sticks. Grind the basic shapes and you'll be able to do about 90% of what you want.

Welderpaul's right about the brazed on carbide tips btw - useless. Don't even be tempted.

The one time I would recommend carbide is for parting off - you can now get nice thin blades that accept small carbide parting tips - they're brilliant, and take all the horrors out of parting off. These things: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2mm-Parting-o...yZ112399QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Ian

 

[bill_gj]

The one trouble with HSS grind-it-yourself tools is when you run out of space in your toolpost. If you're lucky, you may get 3 or 4 tools set up. If not then it'll be just 2 tools and if you don't have another toolpost or a quick-change toolpost, setting up another tool means shimming it up to get your cutting edge/tip on the job centreline and then resetting the original tool when you need that again.
It's OK if you're just doing hobby stuff and not got any time pressures.
Throw-away carbide stuff allows the new cutting edge to go back into the holder within thou of the old one, minimising any fiddling for accuracy or cutting surface finish.

As for fluids - yep, suds for mild steels, paraffin for aluminium.

If that a half-shaft, Malcolm?
You'll need to be careful of the undercut between the splines and the shaft if it is. Any stress raising scores and it will risk it snapping. It's an ingenious way of making splines but must put undesigned-for stresses on the lathe.

"lathing" = Turning