Late paying customers

[NickyEng]

Years ago, I was responsible for a big company yacht as part of looking after all their stuff in Portugal. It used to come in for the off season and usually needed quite a bit done, so I was often in the Marina. One day a retired airline pilot knocked on the deck and asked if I could look at his engine. For six months it had been looked at by several different guys, but would start, only to stop a few seconds later. Injection serviced twice, bled innumerable times, head off and valves done. No difference. So I listened to it start... and stop, thinking I know these guys and they are not bad mechs. Heard a slight hiss after it stopped and disconnected the exhaust pipe on a whim(dry to the stern, then water injected at the top of the swan neck)Tried again and it ran fine, yep, the exhaust was blocked with carbon at the swan neck. The client look at me like I had grown wings and spluttered that he had been at this for six months and I had sussed it in five minutes. Well, word spread and I was beating them off with a boathook after that. Pure luck. All my clients down there were pretty well off and paid when asked.
The ones here are also all owners of sailing yachts and retired or Professional types. So far not had a bill questioned and payment on the spot.

Do you find a difference between the Mobo owners and the Yachties?

Yep the yachties pay better, they can be very arrogant but they pay. I am in a marina mainly now with just motor boats and they are deffo worse.
As a coincidence I had a similar thing on a perkins t-6354 engine years ago. Thing wouldn't start. 2 engineers had been at if for ages and finally had the engines out the boat In bits and put it all back together but still missed the problem.
Owner was pulling his hair out and eventually someone gave him my number.
I went down and looked at it and had it diagnosed.within the hour. The exhaust manifold end plate which connected to the mixer elbow at had a gasket between it and the manifold. Someone had put a new gasket in it except the gasket did not have a hole in the middle for the gas to pass so it was effectively a fully blocked exhaust. It was so easy to detect the exhaust was blocked since smoke used to pour from those engines on startup. Dunno how it had happened and neither did the owner but he didn't know whether to laugh or cry after all he'd been thru. He sung my praises to the high heavens tho andi ended up with a good few customers off the back of it.

 

[Wallace]

Companies for me have been the worst payers next to so called friends. Had a couple of people bring jobs and vehicles for repair through word of mouth that tried the "can I take it now and pay you next week?" excuse or similar and I just tell them it will sit in my back garden until I'm paid.

 

[MattF]

Had a couple of people bring jobs and vehicles for repair through word of mouth that tried the "can I take it now and pay you next week?" excuse or similar and I just tell them it will sit in my back garden until I'm paid.

It's amazing what some think they can get away with, isn't it. Can always remember doing one repair years ago, and when I told the chap the price he said that he was only expecting it to cost a fiver or so. That was his expectation of cost for me calling out and collecting it, sorting the fault and then dropping it back off. Aye, right. Seem to recall that was around the time I introduced a callout charge, (no quibble. They pay it regardless if I turn up), to get rid of the numpties and time-wasters before they even tried.

 

[NickyEng]

It's amazing what some think they can get away with, isn't it. Can always remember doing one repair years ago, and when I told the chap the price he said that he was only expecting it to cost a fiver or so. That was his expectation of cost for me calling out and collecting it, sorting the fault and then dropping it back off. Aye, right. Seem to recall that was around the time I introduced a callout charge, (no quibble. They pay it regardless if I turn up), to get rid of the numpties and time-wasters before they even tried.

I think bad customers have cost me alot more than I have made profit over the years. As I said I grade them strictly this coming year.
Maybe I been unlucky or just in the wrong industry at the lower end of market.
Some customers just seem to deliberately want to wind me up.
It has taken alot of self control sometimes not too punch the guy right off the end of the pier - I have been very close a few times!
It's good to talk to guys on here with experience of what I am talking about.

 

[MattF]

I think bad customers have cost me alot more than I have made profit over the years. As I said I grade them strictly this coming year.
Maybe I been unlucky or just in the wrong industry at the lower end of market.
Some customers just seem to deliberately want to wind me up.
It has taken alot of self control sometimes not too punch the guy right off the end of the pier - I have been very close a few times!
It's good to talk to guys on here with experience of what I am talking about.

You're not unlucky; It's just how it goes. One chap I worked for years ago used to say: "It's the jobs you don't do which make you money". He worded it crappily, which is why it took me a while to twig exactly what he meant, but he literally meant that any profit from one good job could be totally negated by one or more bad ones, so ditch the bad ones before they even start. They aren't just costing you time but also money, if you humour them.

 

[mike os]

boatyard is easy...nothing leaves the yard until paid for in full, if paying by bacs then until cleared into your account... no cheques, cash or card only, no exceptions except businesses that have made previous arrangements.... and they get stopped when 15 days overdue and the above nothing leaves applies

As to being hard nosed... look at it the other way... they know it has to be paid and are trying to take you for a fool, for the last 5-10 years I have given it 20- 30 days over and threatened to pass it to a debt collection agency. I have also gone as far as issued Statutory Demands, having the forms completed to wind up a limited company, and threatened individuals with bankruptcy proceedings.... Usually its the ones with the new range rover or merc in the carpark... Strangely enough as soon as this became apparent that i was not just going to wait forever or that I had instigated legal procedings the invoice was paid immediately or as fast as bacs worked in those days (3-5 days)

There is having a bit of a cashflow problem and extracting the michael......

 

[NickyEng]

boatyard is easy...nothing leaves the yard until paid for in full, if paying by bacs then until cleared into your account... no cheques, cash or card only, no exceptions except businesses that have made previous arrangements.... and they get stopped when 15 days overdue and the above nothing leaves applies

As to being hard nosed... look at it the other way... they know it has to be paid and are trying to take you for a fool, for the last 5-10 years I have given it 20- 30 days over and threatened to pass it to a debt collection agency. I have also gone as far as issued Statutory Demands, having the forms completed to wind up a limited company, and threatened individuals with bankruptcy proceedings.... Usually its the ones with the new range rover or merc in the carpark... Strangely enough as soon as this became apparent that i was not just going to wait forever or that I had instigated legal procedings the invoice was paid immediately or as fast as bacs worked in those days (3-5 days)

There is having a bit of a cashflow problem and extracting the michael......

Unfortunately Mike I don't own the Marina but just work from it. The Marina owners do the storage berthing fees etc.
The boatowners engage me separately for repairs
The Marina owners might not a problem with the same person I do and I can't really involve them in my disputes unless I go to court again and obtain a 'lean on the boat'. Sometimes I just don't have time to go thru all that process as I just work from " job to job " so to speak. barely keep my head above water some months (some.months are fine) but I need to keep working to fill the financial deficit left by th non or delaying payer.
Especially when there's been parts on the bill, that takes twice as long to dig yourself out as that is money right out the bank, not just labour. Don't get me wrong I have been to court etc but it takes a hell of a time to get the money.

 

[KemppiFrog]

.
It has taken alot of self control sometimes not too punch the guy right off the end of the pier - I have been very close a few times!
It's good to talk to guys on here with experience of what I am talking about.

The only one I really got annoyed at was a South African arquitect of German extraction. I made an SS & toughened glass railing going right round the upper story a very modern house design. Plus some interesting gates. He was over the moon an promised lots of further work, then delayed the final payment...because there 'might' be rusting problems down the line. Huh? After several unanswered notes, I went to his office and demanded the money. There were some prospective clients waiting who listened to it all. He was very offended and threatened to take me to court for defamation, I said good luck and left. Of course I never got the money and found out it was not the first time he had stiffed people. I about broke even on costs, less my time and heard later that karma caught up with him.

 

[NickyEng]

The only one I really got annoyed at was a South African arquitect of German extraction. I made an SS & toughened glass railing going right round the upper story a very modern house design. Plus some interesting gates. He was over the moon an promised lots of further work, then delayed the final payment...because there 'might' be rusting problems down the line. Huh? After several unanswered notes, I went to his office and demanded the money. There were some prospective clients waiting who listened to it all. He was very offended and threatened to take me to court for defamation, I said good luck and left. Of course I never got the money and found out it was not the first time he had stiffed people. I about broke even on costs, less my time and heard later that karma caught up with him.

That's crap mate. Glad karma caught up with him on the end, sure they will with some of mine too. Here's hoping

 

[Shox Dr]

It's hard no question about it.
As the yrs and clients go by, you harden up, get very cynical, and tend to treat everything you hear with a large dose of salt.
I also treat everyone and I mean EVERYONE as an idiot until proven otherwise; I don't mean being rude, just arms length tactics.

And NO one gets credit. Period.
If I need to buy materials then they pay for them. Money up front and I buy plus a bit for my troubles. Or they do the searching/buying.

 

[mike os]

Unfortunately Mike I don't own the Marina but just work from it. The Marina owners do the storage berthing fees etc.
The boatowners engage me separately for repairs
The Marina owners might not a problem with the same person I do and I can't really involve them in my disputes unless I go to court again and obtain a 'lean on the boat'. Sometimes I just don't have time to go thru all that process as I just work from " job to job " so to speak. barely keep my head above water some months (some.months are fine) but I need to keep working to fill the financial deficit left by th non or delaying payer.
Especially when there's been parts on the bill, that takes twice as long to dig yourself out as that is money right out the bank, not just labour. Don't get me wrong I have been to court etc but it takes a hell of a time to get the money.

Courts are a waste of time and money, if you feel the need to go to court just give it to a debt collector to sort out, they are not shy of being nasty on your behalf.

 

[mike os]

Also I refuse to work for anyone i have had payment issues with in the past, regardless of the amounts

 

[slim_boy_fat]

on the bright side I didn't have to wait for karma as it had been viciously attacking her with cakes for the last 20 years

...I also treat everyone and I mean EVERYONE as an idiot until proven otherwise

That's how I regard other road users when I'm driving.

 

[Kent]

Sorry to hear about your "proper" job...

Re your topic, my wife is self-employed and did some work for a guy who she used to work for, who is now at a massive company (Akzo Nobel, if you're interested - nowt untrue or libellous in what I'm writing). She sent the invoice to the office in Scotland where said guy worked and they hadn't paid in 60 days.
She wrote to them and they responded with "we pay in 90 days".

Darn, thought wife, but that's what you get with a big company.

Nope - worse than that. 90 days go by and she gets a letter saying "your invoice has been rejected because it must be addressed to our finance operation in the Netherlands - please resubmit to them". And, of course, the 90 days is from receipt of the invoice in the Netherlands. She she waited over six months to get paid.
Why did the Scottish outfit wait 90 days to tell her the invoice needed to go somewhere else?

To answer your question, she wants to get extra business from them so saw no point in aggravating them - it would be water off a duck's back, anyway...

Good luck with your expanding venture, though!

Yeah one of the world's biggest engineering firms wanted some work doing by a specialist fabricator at the smaller end of things
They refused it leaving them in a pickle said oh sorry we won't deal with you no matter what you offer as it's too hard to get paid
Cuts both ways you know. Biggest firm I know pay on invoice regardless of being given time to pay - they get keen prices and top service from that

 

[Tiggy_dorset]

Biggest firm I know pay on invoice regardless of being given time to pay - they get keen prices and top service from that

Exactly, look after your suppliers (ie. pay them on time), and they will look after you (go out of their way to get you what you need at short notice)

 

[KemppiFrog]

Client ( who made serious money) used to supply ASDA with hosery. He went to the purchasing agent and said he would give him an extra 3% discount if they paid in 30 days. Bearing in mind they work to tight margins, I asked if it was worth it. He said having the money in your hands was easily worth it. I did work for him for ten years and learned quite a lot. Never realised there was so much to be earned from tights. He finally sold his property to the guy behind Dixons and PC World and I was part of the care package. Found him one of the toughest nuts I have met and bowed out after sorting the handover and finding staff to look after them. The first guy was tough and ruthless, but we got on fine and I never had a problem with payments. The other was far trickier and I really didn't like him, so got out of the arangement. I might still have the letter from him. "While I sell a lot of technical equipement, I really don't know what buttons to push, so, if I buy this property, I expect you to continue your support" Classic stuff, for a guy that was selling a PC ever 30 seconds... I actually had to sort out the installation of his PC and help him use it.
Call to food.. And Homeland is coming up!
KF

 

[NickyEng]

Client ( who made serious money) used to supply ASDA with hosery. He went to the purchasing agent and said he would give him an extra 3% discount if they paid in 30 days. Bearing in mind they work to tight margins, I asked if it was worth it. He said having the money in your hands was easily worth it. I did work for him for ten years and learned quite a lot. Never realised there was so much to be earned from tights. He finally sold his property to the guy behind Dixons and PC World and I was part of the care package. Found him one of the toughest nuts I have met and bowed out after sorting the handover and finding staff to look after them. The first guy was tough and ruthless, but we got on fine and I never had a problem with payments. The other was far trickier and I really didn't like him, so got out of the arangement. I might still have the letter from him. "While I sell a lot of technical equipement, I really don't know what buttons to push, so, if I buy this property, I expect you to continue your support" Classic stuff, for a guy that was selling a PC ever 30 seconds... I actually had to sort out the installation of his PC and help him use it.
Call to food.. And Homeland is coming up!
KF

The only way you are gonna have money like that is to be tough and ruthless. Most of us guys are just normal working guys on here I'm guessing.
I certainly don't have the personality or the business drive to Shaft people like us on the Way to the top because to get to the top you do have to Shaft people.
I also have a couple of very wealthy boat clients.and every penny is a prisoner with them.
They try to screw me back on the price and argue about every penny.I don't want to live like that or do that to anybody. I'd sooner be skint and be the kind of human being I am.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Companies for me have been the worst payers next to so called friends. Had a couple of people bring jobs and vehicles for repair through word of mouth that tried the "can I take it now and pay you next week?" excuse or similar and I just tell them it will sit in my back garden until I'm paid.

That is ridiculous, why on earth do people consider it OK to not pay for work upon completion without prior agreement - madness.

Biggest firm I know pay on invoice regardless of being given time to pay - they get keen prices and top service from that

Exactly, look after your suppliers (ie. pay them on time), and they will look after you (go out of their way to get you what you need at short notice)

I used to have a little involvement with a not very pleasant farmer who I can only really describe as being universally disliked.
But he has no difficulty getting people to work for him as he is businesslike to deal with, pays to have the job done right and pays for the work immediately.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

...I certainly don't have the personality or the business drive to Shaft people like us on the Way to the top because to get to the top you do have to Shaft people....

My old Mum used to say "Never be rude to people on your way up the ladder, you might need them on your way down again".

 

[baconbarm]

T

I do my best pal. I am a sole trader so I spend alot of time busting my balls all day trying to get the work done and finished. (same as every other self employed guy)Get home try and get the invoices made up which can be quite technical for boat repairs - Tons of parts etc, Send out the invoice then try to keep the balls in the air and chase the money.
If there is anyone on here deals with leisure boat customers say no more - they will know what I mean. They can be a nightmare, they don't use the boat for months, preventative maintenance is out of the window.

Then the boat breaks down and they pester the living daylights out of you at all times of the day. You get the repairs done then they don't want to pay and believe you me I don't have a lot of patience by that point. Some even say there is another problem on the boat ( which has nothing to do with what I was doing or working on) so they say they are withholding payment. then I blow a gasket with the guy on occasion when I know he us taking the p**s. I have even immobilised non payers boats in past. Court cases, decrees against owners and finally sherriff officers arrest the boat once have a decree ( that bit can take a good while)​

That's probably why they can afford the boats in the first place, they didn't get rich by throwing £50 notes at everyone willy nilly