In the above 99 is dashboard earth, 200 the glow plugs, 53 the igntion key unit, 44 the accessories board or fuse box, 47 the plug from fusebox to accessories board number1, 103 accessories board feed, 393 is battery isolator switch (think this was ambulance and minibus only...), 208 is electric motor stop, 201 the pre-heater unit, 31 connector number 2 on instrument panel, 30 connector number 1 on instrument panel,( both 31 and 30 are inside the instrument pod cluster).
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Nomad
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@jmp49 The diagram is exactly what I was looking for - item 201 shows how the pins are connected.
I had guessed where to connect the earth and feed from the ignition key but now it's confirmed.
Many thanks for the help, I looked in the circuit diagrams I have but they are schematics and don't show the physical connections the way yours does.
I had guessed where to connect the earth and feed from the ignition key but now it's confirmed.
Many thanks for the help, I looked in the circuit diagrams I have but they are schematics and don't show the physical connections the way yours does.
Nomad
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My postie just brought what I hope is the secret weapon needed to fix my “No user serviceable parts inside” Renault engine 
Fakita 18v cordless die grinder with a flex extension. It will be the weekend before I get a chance to try it, wish me luck !
It might also get used to fine tune the welding around the edges of the new floors on my winter rebuild project
Fakita 18v cordless die grinder with a flex extension. It will be the weekend before I get a chance to try it, wish me luck !
It might also get used to fine tune the welding around the edges of the new floors on my winter rebuild project
Nomad
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We have progress and the die grinder with flexi shaft is my new favourite tool
First impressions are Katsu ( Makita LXT clones) are great value.
A couple of minutes relieving the bottom of the cylinder allowed the conrod up far enough for me to remove the 2nd piston ring
1 cylinder done, 3 more to go ..
The slipper piston runs over the area I’ve reshaped so I’ve probably reduced the life of the engine significantly. It’s clearly been running on borrowed time for many years so I can live with that
First impressions are Katsu ( Makita LXT clones) are great value.
A couple of minutes relieving the bottom of the cylinder allowed the conrod up far enough for me to remove the 2nd piston ring
1 cylinder done, 3 more to go ..The slipper piston runs over the area I’ve reshaped so I’ve probably reduced the life of the engine significantly. It’s clearly been running on borrowed time for many years so I can live with that
Nomad
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A quick check with a newly acquired caliper shows the big end journal (crankpin) is 56.26mm
That is very good news as the crank hasn't been reground and is well within tolerance - and the STD bearing shells I boughtwill should fit
It's progress
So now I *only* need to fit the new rings and big end bearings on the cylinder I prepared earlier, repeat for all the other cylinders, put everything else back together and hope it works.
What could possibly go wrong?
Big ends - I'm now looking for the torques (852 motor) to refit the new shells but if anyone knows the spec that would be a big help - I thought I'd seen a mention of tightening to xx degrees but I can't find it ...
Head bolts - I'm confused.
Spec seems to contradict it's own info - for 2nd tightening is it 5 dANm (without undoing from stage 1 torque?) or is it the degrees in the table?
Bonus points if anyone can find a list of torque settings (not degree tightening) for stage 1 - 2 -3.
Refit the head gasket dry or with a smear of silicone etc ??
Edit: looking again,I think it's tighten pass1 = 3da, pass2=5da, then undo the bolt and retighten 2da then retighten2 then tighten3 ....
New question to confirm : to retighten I guess it's xx degrees, then (without undoing) retighten2 another xx degress ...
It's all good fun
That is very good news as the crank hasn't been reground and is well within tolerance - and the STD bearing shells I bought
It's progress
So now I *only* need to fit the new rings and big end bearings on the cylinder I prepared earlier, repeat for all the other cylinders, put everything else back together and hope it works.
What could possibly go wrong?
Big ends - I'm now looking for the torques (852 motor) to refit the new shells but if anyone knows the spec that would be a big help - I thought I'd seen a mention of tightening to xx degrees but I can't find it ...
Head bolts - I'm confused.
Spec seems to contradict it's own info - for 2nd tightening is it 5 dANm (without undoing from stage 1 torque?) or is it the degrees in the table?
Bonus points if anyone can find a list of torque settings (not degree tightening) for stage 1 - 2 -3.
Refit the head gasket dry or with a smear of silicone etc ??
Edit: looking again,I think it's tighten pass1 = 3da, pass2=5da, then undo the bolt and retighten 2da then retighten2 then tighten3 ....
New question to confirm : to retighten I guess it's xx degrees, then (without undoing) retighten2 another xx degress ...
It's all good fun
Last edited:
KemppiFrog
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Dry..
I have had a bunch of Renaults including two Espaces with the 2.1 .
Earlier, changed cylinders liners and pistons on a pushrod R12. No prob with the clearances and sealing..Read the book. I would not have a problem with grinding a bit off the rods to clear, but would be very careful with the dust...
The R12 I did in situe, dead easy, less than a day, as I could drop the sump and lift the head.
Takes me back to fitting rings to an MG PA in the early 60s. One could actually drop the rods and pistons down past the crank. So the lack of a head gasket replacement then, was circumvated, as I left the head on. I was too young to drive (on the roads..) so tested it round the Rye House stadium track. Crash box, some care needed... Not to mention the cable drum brakes.....Talk about cutting ones teeth on a tricky one.
I have had a bunch of Renaults including two Espaces with the 2.1 .
Earlier, changed cylinders liners and pistons on a pushrod R12. No prob with the clearances and sealing..Read the book. I would not have a problem with grinding a bit off the rods to clear, but would be very careful with the dust...
The R12 I did in situe, dead easy, less than a day, as I could drop the sump and lift the head.
Takes me back to fitting rings to an MG PA in the early 60s. One could actually drop the rods and pistons down past the crank. So the lack of a head gasket replacement then, was circumvated, as I left the head on. I was too young to drive (on the roads..) so tested it round the Rye House stadium track. Crash box, some care needed... Not to mention the cable drum brakes.....Talk about cutting ones teeth on a tricky one.
KemppiFrog
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Oh, my Espace 11 developed a curious problem. It would start OK but not respond to the accelerator, just idle. I found that engaging 1st would get you going, then second for a bit quicker. After that went OK. Until one dropped back to slow speed again. Thought it might be a problem with the LP pump, so fitted an extra pump, but no improvement.
Scrappy supplied a fresh injector pump, but it had an anti theft bit. So, to bypass that, I had a cable into the cabin with a switch to get it going. Sorted! Though some amusement from friends about it...
Bit later, more serious probs sent it to the big scrappy in the sky.
Kangoo is going well. Err, apart from the boost control...
Scrappy supplied a fresh injector pump, but it had an anti theft bit. So, to bypass that, I had a cable into the cabin with a switch to get it going. Sorted! Though some amusement from friends about it...
Bit later, more serious probs sent it to the big scrappy in the sky.
Kangoo is going well. Err, apart from the boost control...
Danez
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wet liners are such a ballache, both engines i've ever had the head off has had them, and both had the wrong coolant used and rusty water channels. I'm always reyt paranoid i'd disturb them!
205 ones looking crusty
Clamped down the talbot ones just to be safe and set the pistons to the mid point
currently bathing in evaporust now, if i go back to it and it's all drained into the sump i will cry
best of luck with the renault! apologies didn't mean to derail but i just wanted to vent my displeasure of wet liners
205 ones looking crusty
Clamped down the talbot ones just to be safe and set the pistons to the mid point
currently bathing in evaporust now, if i go back to it and it's all drained into the sump i will cry
best of luck with the renault! apologies didn't mean to derail but i just wanted to vent my displeasure of wet liners
Nomad
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Looking through several workshop books, it looks like big ends are 6.5 daNm ( on my torque wrench I'll be using 65 Nm .. ) 
For the post above, I've worked on several small Pugs & Citroens but didn't know some of them came with wet liners. I'm always learning
For the post above, I've worked on several small Pugs & Citroens but didn't know some of them came with wet liners. I'm always learning
Nomad
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Progress
Number 1 cylinder has been opened up at the base. It now has 2 new piston rings, new big end shells, and is back together
Number 4 cylinder has been opened up and the top 2 old rings removed before darkness stopped play - now it needs the cylinder cleaned (emery paper) then new rings & shells fitting.
With hindsight I might see if I can find a piston ring compressor before fitting more rings, it's do-able without but is tricky
Info for anyone considering this in the future :
If you can find a good used engine, buy it (less entertaining but it will save you a lot of grief) !
With no work, the piston will move 18.50mm above the block (top ring can be removed), to remove the 2nd ring the piston needs to be 26mm above the block, I ended up 28mm so I had clearance to replace the 2nd ring. Summary - you need to remove 10mm from the bottom of the cylinder ("birds mouth" style, ie just a nibble at the points where the rods make contact), the cylinders extend 15mm below the block so they have plenty of meat to allow this.
Notes about access to the bottom of the cylinders for the die grinder :
cylinder 1 is great, the cylinder is in front of the x-member, plenty of space to work with the van on the ground.
All other need the van on ramps / jacks - I wish I 'd realised before I ripped the engine apart. Doh !
cylinder 4 is behind the x-member and partly shaded by power steering pipes (if fitted), tricky but ok.
cylinder 3 is above the x-member, this will be "fun" but looks do-able, worst case I can change just the top ring without using the die grinder.
cylinder 2 same as 3 but it's also blocked by the oil pump in the sump - this will be a *lot* of fun.
This is an 852 engine (ID plate is below the front exhaust pipe), the more common J8S is conventional and the pistons & rods can be removed from above without a die grinder.
Number 1 cylinder has been opened up at the base. It now has 2 new piston rings, new big end shells, and is back together
Number 4 cylinder has been opened up and the top 2 old rings removed before darkness stopped play - now it needs the cylinder cleaned (emery paper) then new rings & shells fitting.
With hindsight I might see if I can find a piston ring compressor before fitting more rings, it's do-able without but is tricky
Info for anyone considering this in the future :
If you can find a good used engine, buy it (less entertaining but it will save you a lot of grief) !
With no work, the piston will move 18.50mm above the block (top ring can be removed), to remove the 2nd ring the piston needs to be 26mm above the block, I ended up 28mm so I had clearance to replace the 2nd ring. Summary - you need to remove 10mm from the bottom of the cylinder ("birds mouth" style, ie just a nibble at the points where the rods make contact), the cylinders extend 15mm below the block so they have plenty of meat to allow this.
Notes about access to the bottom of the cylinders for the die grinder :
cylinder 1 is great, the cylinder is in front of the x-member, plenty of space to work with the van on the ground.
All other need the van on ramps / jacks - I wish I 'd realised before I ripped the engine apart. Doh !
cylinder 4 is behind the x-member and partly shaded by power steering pipes (if fitted), tricky but ok.
cylinder 3 is above the x-member, this will be "fun" but looks do-able, worst case I can change just the top ring without using the die grinder.
cylinder 2 same as 3 but it's also blocked by the oil pump in the sump - this will be a *lot* of fun.
This is an 852 engine (ID plate is below the front exhaust pipe), the more common J8S is conventional and the pistons & rods can be removed from above without a die grinder.
Nomad
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The stripping apart is finished, now it's time to clean everything and start the reassembly
All pistons now have 2 new rings, all big ends have been replaced, the crank turns nicely ... all good so far.
The bottom of each cylinder got "nibbled" so I could change 2 piston rings without removing the piston (see the yellow circle).
Access was very tight otherwise not a difficult job. Lots of brake clearer before & after to clean the shavings.
An oversized clamp style jubilee clip worked fine as a homebrew piston ring compressor
The old bearing shells. This looks like general wear to me rather than any major fault - any comments? New shells were fitted.
The new die grinder survived with 1 minor fault, the flexible extension died when I was working on the final cylinder - I'm putting it down to me pushing it beyond it's limits rather than a faulty cable.
Details of the die grinder and comments / thoughts / mini-review at https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum...r-18v-katsu-fakita-makita-compatiible.138450/
The next job is going to be to work out torques for refitting the head.
It looks like I tighten in 2 stages, then undo and retighten - then (without undoing?) tighten ** degrees - then (without undoing?) tighten another ** degrees.
Help & advice appreciated as I'm not confident I've found the right settings, or that I understand them properly.
All pistons now have 2 new rings, all big ends have been replaced, the crank turns nicely ... all good so far.
The bottom of each cylinder got "nibbled" so I could change 2 piston rings without removing the piston (see the yellow circle).
Access was very tight otherwise not a difficult job. Lots of brake clearer before & after to clean the shavings.
An oversized clamp style jubilee clip worked fine as a homebrew piston ring compressor
The old bearing shells. This looks like general wear to me rather than any major fault - any comments? New shells were fitted.
The new die grinder survived with 1 minor fault, the flexible extension died when I was working on the final cylinder - I'm putting it down to me pushing it beyond it's limits rather than a faulty cable.
Details of the die grinder and comments / thoughts / mini-review at https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum...r-18v-katsu-fakita-makita-compatiible.138450/
The next job is going to be to work out torques for refitting the head.
It looks like I tighten in 2 stages, then undo and retighten - then (without undoing?) tighten ** degrees - then (without undoing?) tighten another ** degrees.
Help & advice appreciated as I'm not confident I've found the right settings, or that I understand them properly.
Misterg
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From your earlier post:
As I read it:Head bolts - I'm confused.
Spec seems to contradict it's own info - for 2nd tightening is it 5 dANm (without undoing from stage 1 torque?) or is it the degrees in the table?
Bonus points if anyone can find a list of torque settings (not degree tightening) for stage 1 - 2 -3.
Refit the head gasket dry or with a smear of silicone etc ??
Edit: looking again,I think it's tighten pass1 = 3da, pass2=5da, then undo the bolt and retighten 2da then retighten2 then tighten3 ....
New question to confirm : to retighten I guess it's xx degrees, then (without undoing) retighten2 another xx degress ...
1st stage
Tighten all, in sequence to 3daNm
Further tighten all, in sequence to 5daNm
2nd stage
Slacken bolt 1 only
Re-tighten bolt 1 to 2daNm
Tighten bolt 1 through 105° (from 1st table)
Slacken bolt 2 only
Re-tighten bolt 2 to 2daNm
Tighten bolt 2 through 60° (from 1st table)
[Repeat until bolt 17 through 80°]
3rd stage
Tighten bolt 1 by a further 105° (from 2nd table)
Tighten bolt 2 by a further 60° (from 2nd table)
[Repeat until bolt 17 through 80°]
Tightening order for this stage doesn't matter
Gareth_16V
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There's a "wait 3 minutes between steps 1 and 2", also. But doesn't that section apply to the engine the OP doesn't have (J8S)?
Misterg
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Oops! Yes:
1st stage
Tighten all, in sequence to 3daNm
Further tighten all, in sequence to 5daNm
Wait 3 minutes
2nd stage
Slacken bolt 1 only
Re-tighten bolt 1 to 2daNm
Tighten bolt 1 through 105° (from 1st table)
Slacken bolt 2 only
Re-tighten bolt 2 to 2daNm
Tighten bolt 2 through 60° (from 1st table)
[Repeat until bolt 17 through 80°]
3rd stage
Tighten bolt 1 by a further 105° (from 2nd table)
Tighten bolt 2 by a further 60° (from 2nd table)
[Repeat until bolt 17 through 80°]
Tightening order for this stage doesn't matter
No idea about that - just taking the info as presented...
Nomad
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It's back together and it's alive
It took a lot of turning over before it thought about firing up - even giving it a sniff of easystart didn't help - now it's happy to start as normal.
Any idea what would cause popping in the intake manifold?
Cylinder 3 is popping badly, tappets on #3 were loose (now in spec) but I'd expect a loose tappet to keep the valve closed - if the inlet tappet was tight the popping would make more sense to me
Findings. After letting it run for many minutes ( I've not tried driving it yet as some bits need refitting first) ....
It still has backpressure, needs a road test to see if it's any better when it's being driven.
Plenty of blue smoke from the exhaust when you put your foot down - no surprise as it's still burning off the oil from the rebuild. Will recheck after a road test.
It's been a fun learning exercise but I'm not sure if it's progress ??
It took a lot of turning over before it thought about firing up - even giving it a sniff of easystart didn't help - now it's happy to start as normal.
Any idea what would cause popping in the intake manifold?
Cylinder 3 is popping badly, tappets on #3 were loose (now in spec) but I'd expect a loose tappet to keep the valve closed - if the inlet tappet was tight the popping would make more sense to me
Findings. After letting it run for many minutes ( I've not tried driving it yet as some bits need refitting first) ....
It still has backpressure, needs a road test to see if it's any better when it's being driven.
Plenty of blue smoke from the exhaust when you put your foot down - no surprise as it's still burning off the oil from the rebuild. Will recheck after a road test.
It's been a fun learning exercise but I'm not sure if it's progress ??
