Kennedy Assassination anniversary

[ronan]

It is. I suspect Kennedy's status is based more on the promise of those first two years and the fact that he did seem, as you say, a young, dynamic president, rather than on what he actually achieved or would have achieved. I know people complain about press intrusion, but it is disgraceful that he got away with being such a philanderer whilst in office, and you wonder if his administration would have eventually been brought down by scandal.

I also think that the Kennedys fulfilled a kind of glamorous role in the US that in the UK we reserved for the royal family. I read a couple of books about his death years ago and initially believed there was some sort of conspiracy, but I really do think now it was a lone nut. Hard to believe the CIA didn't interview Oswald when he came back from Russia, so there may be some cover ups of that, but I don't go for the 2nd gunman, grassy knoll theory anymore.

The assassination was usually laid at the door of the mafia, Jack Kennedy had made some serious money during the prohibition days and had some powerful friends in that organisation. Jack had paid the mafia to use their control of the unions to push for kennedy in the elections, Frank Sinatra was also involved. When JFK was elected he turned on the mafia , making a deadly enemy. The various massive arms manufacturers in the us were afraid of losing huge contracts if the vietnam war were to end, as kennedy was pushing for, so they were another powerful enemy.
A philanderer ? Absolutely, which leads onto another conspiracy , namely (and shapely) Marilyn Monroe and her untimely death and the hand the kennedys had in it, or not. Who had Robert Kennedy knocked off ?
As for Oswald being let back into the usa after defecting to russia, that is baffling, as to be a socialist or communist in America is worst sin you can commit.
The coverage given recently on the BBC etc. to the cold war and it various incidents and events is great. The programmes about the cambridge spys, Kim Philby especially and the reshowing of the le carre series of "Tinker tailor soldier spy" is something interesting worth watching. Not the usual z-list celebs eating kangaroo balls in the jungle.

 

[PTvor]

The assassination was usually laid at the door of the mafia, Jack Kennedy had made some serious money during the prohibition days and had some powerful friends in that organisation. Jack had paid the mafia to use their control of the unions to push for kennedy in the elections, Frank Sinatra was also involved. When JFK was elected he turned on the mafia , making a deadly enemy. The various massive arms manufacturers in the us were afraid of losing huge contracts if the vietnam war were to end, as kennedy was pushing for, so they were another powerful enemy.
A philanderer ? Absolutely, which leads onto another conspiracy , namely (and shapely) Marilyn Monroe and her untimely death and the hand the kennedys had in it, or not. Who had Robert Kennedy knocked off ?
As for Oswald being let back into the usa after defecting to russia, that is baffling, as to be a socialist or communist in America is worst sin you can commit.
The coverage given recently on the BBC etc. to the cold war and it various incidents and events is great. The programmes about the cambridge spys, Kim Philby especially and the reshowing of the le carre series of "Tinker tailor soldier spy" is something interesting worth watching. Not the usual z-list celebs eating kangaroo balls in the jungle.

The Church Committee laid the blame for the assassination at the door of organised crime, IIRC. It also looked the performance of the of the CIA and FBI in investigating the assassination and said they were deficient.

It was JFK's father Joe Kennedy who was involved with bootlegging in the 20s.

JFK certainly had a lot of powerful enemies:

Hoover. Hoover detested the Kennedys and he had the dirt on them. For instance JFK shared a mistress with Sam Giancana a mafia don.

Organised crime. He turned on them and Robert Kennedy was involved in pursuing them.

Anti-Castro Cubans.

The CIA who blamed him for the Bay of Pigs fiasco and which he threatened to break up.

Probably sections of the military after he refused to give the command to support the Bays of Pigs invasion.

Oil money, he was talking about ending the oil depletion allowance. A lot of them funded ultra conservative causes.

Big defence contractors who were in favour of the Viet Nam war.

Ultra conservatives like Walker who were opposed to de-segregation.

There were links between the CIA, the mob and anti-Castro Cubans which lead to the plots to topple Castro.

However, apart from Oswald as the lone nut being a bit unsatisfactory, I don't believe anyone has come up with a convincing theory of how a conspiracy was organised and held watertight in the years afterwards.

 

[ronan]

You are of course correct ptvor, it was Joe kennedy not jack. me getting confusticated.

 

[Wedg1e]

JFK certainly had a lot of powerful enemies:

Hoover. Hoover detested the Kennedys and he had the dirt on them. For instance JFK shared a mistress with Sam Giancana a mafia don.

Organised crime. He turned on them and Robert Kennedy was involved in pursuing them.

Anti-Castro Cubans.

The CIA who blamed him for the Bay of Pigs fiasco and which he threatened to break up.

Probably sections of the military after he refused to give the command to support the Bays of Pigs invasion.

Oil money, he was talking about ending the oil depletion allowance. A lot of them funded ultra conservative causes.

Big defence contractors who were in favour of the Viet Nam war.

Ultra conservatives like Walker who were opposed to de-segregation.

There were links between the CIA, the mob and anti-Castro Cubans which lead to the plots to topple Castro.

However, apart from Oswald as the lone nut being a bit unsatisfactory, I don't believe anyone has come up with a convincing theory of how a conspiracy was organised and held watertight in the years afterwards.

So, turning your last statement on its head, if it wasn't a US Government conspiracy yet JFK had all those other supposed enemies, how come whichever one of those it may have been who 'pulled the trigger', so to speak, also managed to stay silent for all the years since?

 

[PTvor]

So, turning your last statement on its head, if it wasn't a US Government conspiracy yet JFK had all those other supposed enemies, how come whichever one of those it may have been who 'pulled the trigger', so to speak, also managed to stay silent for all the years since?

I didn't say whether I thought it was a conspiracy or not, least of all a US government conspiracy. In any case, "US government" covers a lot of ground. Having a motive for killing someone to the extent of jumping for joy when they are killed, does not mean that you were involved in their death.

I said that the lone gunman idea was a bit unsatisfactory, something like 70% in surveys in the USA agree with the idea that Oswald did not act alone; that also covers a lot of ground. There are definitely curious things about Oswald, e.g. his trip to Mexico City, the supposed attack on General Walker and the way the rifle was supposedly taken into the building where he worked.

I also said that if it was a conspiracy, it's very odd that it's held for 50 years. Some people argue that there have been confessions.

I really don't know what happened apart from there being some evidence to suggest there was more to it than met the eye and there's something fishy about it. The fact that Oswald was killed before his guilt or innocence was established in a court of law and with his side of the story being heard properly has fueled speculation.

 

[KemppiFrog]

Only comment is the idea that the Americans view the Kennedies as some sort of American Royal Family.
Mrs KF is from Washington DC and cringes when she hears that. Any right thinking person feels the same over there and the continuing scandals from that family just embarrass them.

 

[PTvor]

Only comment is the idea that the Americans view the Kennedies as some sort of American Royal Family.
Mrs KF is from Washington DC and cringes when she hears that. Any right thinking person feels the same over there and the continuing scandals from that family just embarrass them.

There's definitely an element of the Death of Diana about it. How can someone so significant be snuffed out dramatically without there being something going on?

I saw nothing fishy about the Death of Diana.

I do see something fishy in the JFK assassination, and a lot of the fishiness arises from Oswald not being put on trial, that is put on trial with him as the suspect and cross-examined with witnesses called for and against.

 

[wheresmejumper]

pleading the fifth wouldnt have helped either way

 

[PTvor]

pleading the fifth wouldnt have helped either way

There would have had to have been some serious explaining on his part. Such as how allegedly a rifle, matched to the only bullet found, was mail ordered under a bogus ID found on his person when he was arrested, and was found in the building where he worked.

Then of course, there's the allegation that he murdered a police officer on duty, shortly after the murder of the president, which is no small matter in itself.

 

[wheresmejumper]

he was confronted with that in interview,but he just blatantly rejected all witness statements and evidence.

 

[wheresmejumper]

he said the long narrow item wrapped in brown paper that he brought to work on friday was a curtain pole.

 

[PTvor]

he said the long narrow item wrapped in brown paper that he brought to work on friday was a curtain pole.

Curtain rods.

He also broke his routine and saw his estranged wife to collect these curtain rods. Then carries on a question as to whether he had a need for curtain rods so strong as to break his routine.

Apparently the witness who drove him to work said he carried the package from the car to the building cupped in his hand and under his armpit. But a dissambled Mannlicher Carcano is too long to be carried like that. The witness could have been mistaken.

It's been suggested that curtain rods were found in the building. How long, of what nature, and how they were discovered has not been made clear.

The interrogation of Oswald was not well documented. He's supposed to have said all sorts of things, such as, when presented with a witness report that a man had left the building where he worked and entered a Nash Rambler station wagon, he said, "Keep Mrs Paine out of this".

Mrs Paine was his estranged wife's landlady and did own a Nash Rambler.

Most famously he said, "I'm just a patsy". It could have been nonsense.


A lot of the speculation and grey areas would have been put to rest had he been put on trial.

 

[Wedg1e]

I didn't say whether I thought it was a conspiracy or not, least of all a US government conspiracy. .

No, I realise that, but as you listed a number of 'people' who would have been happy to see him dead, you'd have thought that at some stage in the last 50 years someone would have spilled the beans, maybe in a deathbed confession or whatever. Whether it was Government, Mafia, drugs barons or Ronald MacDonald, once more than one person is involved, the risk of someone talking rises exponentially.
However, given the fervour that the Yanks are known for when it comes to patriotism, I'd find it easier to believe that the US Government could keep a plot hushed up, than that anyone else could.

 

[KemppiFrog]

No, I realise that, but as you listed a number of 'people' who would have been happy to see him dead, you'd have thought that at some stage in the last 50 years someone would have spilled the beans, maybe in a deathbed confession or whatever. Whether it was Government, Mafia, drugs barons or Ronald MacDonald, once more than one person is involved, the risk of someone talking rises exponentially.
However, given the fervour that the Yanks are known for when it comes to patriotism, I'd find it easier to believe that the US Government could keep a plot hushed up, than that anyone else could.

+1

In Diana's case, to try and rig an accident of that sort would be impossible, far too many variables and the risk of being caught too high.

 

[ronan]

I really don't think there is a conspiracy. Incidents like this assassination or the death of lady di or who jack the ripper was , are gifts to conspiracy theorists, the fun of endless speculation without ever having final factual proof of who done it or what happened. Personally i think the shooting of kennedy was the work of disgruntled nutter oswald, with the final shot an accidental discharge from the following car by an inexperienced secret service man. The trouble with this theory are there is no room for the mafia , bell helicopters , senior military figures, the cubans, the russians, or david ikes lizards from mars.

 

[johnakay]

who killed Kennedy??
I'll tellya who did it simples.
this fella did it
V
V
V
V
V

 

[ronan]

He looks angry !

 

[gulf]

Does it affect your day to day life today?No,i doubt it.