Keep ARC or buy MIG?

[rtbcomp]

Have a look in the Shielding Gas section to see if there's a supplier near you.

Deals vary enormously so you may have to ring round a bit.

Most hobby users use a "pub bottle" (a bottle from a pub may not contain the correct gas). The deal I got was £60 one-off fee and £20 a refill from a small independent supplier. I got a regulator from Weldequip.

 

[keith19]

Iby, what the guys are saying, summed up, is that small cans of gas, whether argon/co2 mix or just co2, are really only good for getting the feel of starting welding, because they only last between about 10 minutes (argon/co2 mix) and maybe 30 minutes (co2).
Even then, they can be an expensive way to start practice welding, especially using the argon/co2 mix.

As already said, they might be useful to let you know if you want to weld or not, although personally I think the best way to do that is to get yourself an half hour with somebody who knows how to weld, and has proper welding kit.

As the Sealey you are thinking of buying comes set up for gasless welding, there should be enough on the spool to play about with and get into using a torch on scrap metal, just to get some practice in. It won't look good because its gasless, but it will enable you to stick metal together and get started.
While you are doing this you can be looking around your area for the best deal in rented bottles of argon/co2 mix, which is the easiest gas to use, or just co2, which is a bit more fierce - hot - but comes cheaper. You don't need to take on a huge bottle, pick a size you can move around easily is best.

When you move from using gasless wire to either of the above gases you'll find it quite a bit easier to use, especially the argon/co2 mix. You can then enjoy more practice on thinner metals, getting yourself ready for car repairs. A whole lot of fun (!) awaits you, and there is plenty of help on here anytime you need it.

 

[Stitches]

^ yep!

 

[Iby]

WOW. OK. I get it now. Great help on this site! Thanks guys. Much appreciated and it's very nice of you to treat a novice like me with genuine advice.

In reality I am best off going and getting a Sealey and speaking to my local gas distributors in regards with how much they will charge etc

I'm not that bothered about looks of the weld, will a gasless weld wire do the job of putting strengthening plates on the inside of the engine bay?

 

[keith19]

"I'm not that bothered about looks of the weld, will a gasless weld wire do the job of putting strengthening plates on the inside of the engine bay?"
You'll need to get plenty practice in before tackling something like that, and get some practice of welding at different angles before you tackle such a job. What metal thickness are we looking at here? Gasless is fine down to around 2mm, below that experience is needed - which comes with practice.

 

[Iby]

I guess I don't know about the thickness yet :/

I can practice for quite a while on gasless as I won't have to worry about refilling the gas, just buying a new reel. I guess it might not be worth all the money/space and time and I could just pay someone to come down and do it for me but there is no fun in that and tbh, I would like to learn how to weld via mig.

So If I go with the sealey one then all I really need is to sort out a gas tank system with one of my local gas distributors? What about the pipes and hoses that connect to it?

This is going to be a very big learning curve (and an expensive one too if I'm not careful) lol

 

[Wozzaaah]

Are my posts invisible? Please read back through them.

 

[Iby]

I will do My memory is terrible so I probably forgot what you said :/ lol

 

[Iby]

OK i've re-read through them So I shouldn't get refillables the same size as normal ones as they last 10 minutes. How long does a "pub bottle" size last for and how would I connect it up to the sealey?

 

[keith19]

You will need to decide on what gas you intend to use, after pricing up your options locally. Because you will need different regs for different gases, see here for ideas:
http://www.weldequip.com/argonmix-conversion-kit.htm
and:
http://www.weldequip.com/argonmix-conversion-kit-se.htm
and:
http://www.weldequip.com/co2-conversion-kit.htm
Note there are two types of reg, vertical and side entry, depending what your gas supplier's bottles use. You need to get this right first.

CO2 is quite a bit cheaper, as mentioned you can even get pub bottles, which are bigger and last longer than the halfords type bottles, and are easy to carry about. But make sure it is just CO2; pubs do a few mixed gas bottles which are not what you want.

Argon/CO2 mix is generally known as the best to use, but is generally from a local gas supplier, who will charge rather more than a friendly pub landlord. But the gas is worth the extra if you are working on thin metal most of the time.

 

[Iby]

Hi All

Sorry for my late reply.

Keith, You have explained and pointed me to the right direction and I appreciate your help in clearing up my mind regarding the bottles.

Thanks Stitches and Woz as well

So far I have gathered that the Sealey will work out cheaper because it already comes with a argon/co2 mix regulator:

Sealey welder: £221
Gas Pub bottle Total: £65

Total : £286 + (15 everytime I want a refill)

Or the Clarke:

Welder: £215
Regulator: 45
pub bottle gas total: £65

Total: £325 (+15 for refill)

Can someone confirm I do not need anything else other than the consumable wires and if there is any other option?

 

[Iby]

One other thing about this sealey. It says on their website "Model No. SUPERMIG180 and above are supplied with an industrial Argon/CO2 regulator."

Website Do I have to buy a regulator for that as well as it is a Supermig 150 not 180.

 

[keith19]

I would expect it to be a reg for small bottles at that deal price.

This place does the industrial reg included in the deal for not much more:
http://www.expresstools.co.uk/shop/...ExpressTools&gclid=CMfKhs2EsLMCFerItAod4SgAvA

 

[keith19]

Just a note of caution. The industrial reg supplied is likely to be for argon/CO2 mix, if you are using pub bottles you will need a CO2 reg. If you ring them they may be able to supply a CO2 reg instead, as part of the deal.

If not, it's handy to have a spare industrial type argon/CO2 reg anyway, in case you decide to go that route later on. You can actually get adapters to make an argon/C02 mix reg use CO2; not sure if these are cheaper than a separate CO2 reg, though.
Try a PM to weldequipe at top of page, or ring his shop. If an adapter is cheaper, it would be worthwhile getting the Sealey with an industrial reg, fitting the adapter to use your pub bottles, and you still have the argon/CO2 reg if you want to use argon/CO2 mix gas later on.

 

[wheresmejumper]

the 150 and above do come with an industrial reg suitable for argon/co2 and co2
has a removable bullnose adapter

has no gauges on it though

 

[PTvor]

Can someone confirm I do not need anything else other than the consumable wires and if there is any other option?

I don't know about these machines and their regulators etc, but if you haven't already got them you'll need an autodark helmet (£25 and upwards), clamps, gloves, mig pliers, wire brushes, an angle grinder and discs. Not necessarily more than £100 altogether, and nothing you can't do without by improvising with what you've got, but it makes life a lot easier.

Worth bearing in mind if you are watching the pennies.

 

[Iby]

Thank you all for the clarifications. I get most of it now.

Right

I've been ringing up and found a local supplier.
I've forgotten prices though as my memory is super bad.

They could supply me with gas no problems. My concern is that they said they could either supply me with a 3KG c02 gas one or a pub bottle one.

How long will c02 3KG last me until I need a refill?

 

[Iby]

Prices at my local distributor:

Pub bottle £50 for 5 years rental. 10Litres. Refill co2 £17.50.

3KG hobby bottle £25 5 years rental. 5Litres. Refill co2 £10.

Which one should I go for and how long will they last?

 

[shenion]

3KG would be about 5931L of gas or about 590 minutes at 10 LPM. Expect less as some is wasted when trigger is pulled.

(1kg liquid is 1977L of gas)

Hard to say pub size. Mine is 30lb (13kg) and is a bit smaller than I see used for beverages.

 

[Iby]

3KG would be about 5931L of gas or about 590 minutes at 10 LPM. Expect less as some is wasted when trigger is pulled.

(1kg liquid is 1977L of gas)

Hard to say pub size. Mine is 30lb (13kg) and is a bit smaller than I see used for beverages.

Thank you! So I am infact better off with a 3KG one tbh.

Much appreciated all for your help