Just joined and a question! What suits me?

[Bowls]

Hi all

I have an interest in TIG/MIG and see the application for both in auto work as well as other settings. My keen goal is to work on and eventually create a custon car.

At this time I have an mgb which will need work but will want to experiment with other cars too.

I have an idea that AC/DC TIG opens up more possibilities but the price goes up! Gas welding lends itself to a 'better' weld but the isues of gas, the disposables are expensive but if you use bottles does the house insurance get effected?

I have seen the weldequip shop offering some products highly rated here but there are other uk based companies doing similiar products. I want to stay uk ish as China based products have proved troublsome for others.

I was hoping someone could point in a direction of reasonable products.

I have read reviews from classic car mags and screwfix and the usual but practical experince is the key.

Thanks all

 

[malcolm]

Sounds like the first thing to figure out is TIG or MIG or gas.

I rarely find an opportunity to use TIG in car building. It's difficult to use out of position. If you had TIG and MIG you would end up using MIG all the time (especially if you are lazy like me).

Can't really comment on gas as I've never tried it on a car, but I have an uncle who uses it all the time. I leant him my MIG for a few months but he didn't like it.

For car build and restoration I would use MIG. With the exception of aluminium panels, then I'd use an AC/DC TIG. MIG is possible for aluminium but only just - it's like using an arc welder on thin panels - silly. Gas can do ally, but it is skilled.

 

[Bsmith]

I suggest Mig as its easier to learn, great for thin mild steel car parts, you only need to rent 1 gas bottle, (need 2 for gas welding) cheaper to buy and more versatile than tig. I'm sure there are other advantages too.

 

[Bowls]

Thats true, ive had a look at ebay and other sites but finding it hard to pin down. the gas issue of using gas or no gas, has anybody had any experiences good or bad?

The idea of having a range to weld to and not being stuck to predetermined settings is needed.

Thanks

for the replies.

 

[malcolm]

What do you mean about having a range to weld to? You can weld any thickness of metal with any type of welder (within limits for upper and lower thicknesses depending on the welder).

That is only really untrue for MIG welders bought from eBay, some of which have gaps between their settings (ie 2 settings - the first too hot and the second far too hot). eBay is not the place to look for welders as you get all the ****** stuff that's designed to be easier to throw away than return.

For gas or gasless go for gas (or if in doubt go for a combination welder that does both). Gas shielded works colder than gasless so is more suitable for car bodywork (not so much hassle with blowing holes). Also there's not all that slag to remove and you can use thinner wire which runs cooler. For welding outside gasless has the advantage as the shielding doesn't get blown away by the wind.

If you are looking at eBay you'll be on a tight budget. I only recommend Clarke welders in that budget range. They work well (unlike many of the others). The more money you are prepared to throw at buying a welder the nicer and easier things become. I ran a Clarke for a long time, upgraded to a Portamig, and wished I had the cash to upgrade to start with.

 

[Bowls]

Yep the hot or too hot thing was the problem I was referring to.

Ebay was the first place I looked to be honest, it was a starting point to large range available.

R-tech and portamig seem well liked. I would weld in and outside depending on the job.

Can the gas type be linked to both small disposable bottles and the larger BOC type?

Thanks

 

[malcolm]

Not such a tiny budget then. Go for the Portamig rather than the Chinese stuff! They are available in combination gas or gasless, but you've got to ask via phone or email for that.

Also forget disposables. They are too small for doing anything sensible with. I went through 3 of them practising a bit of aluminium welding over an hour or two in an afternoon. £30+ without having done anything useful. You can buy an adapter to convert to the disposable bottles, but you'd need a little regulator for them too. Combined they are maybe £30.

Decent welders tend to be supplied with a twin gauge regulator intended for the BOC bottles. They will also fit independent gas supplier bottles which will work out a lot cheaper than BOC or disposables for occasional use, and those are a better option for just about everyone over the disposables. The gas suppliers list is a sticky thread (at the top) in the shielding gas section. There's also a spreadsheet linked from the shielding gas spreadsheet giving an idea of prices from some of the sources.

 

[Bowls]

I did have a budget in mind which was £300 but it seems that more saving might be required, but amazon do some sealey products at what seems some reasonable prices.

Anybody bought one from there?

 

[danelectro]

I have to say, respectfully, you seem a little vague on what you want to do with this kit.

but wading through the question, I think with the experience you have, and what you want to do, I'd go for a MIG. You will be able to do pretty much all of your work (as I see it) with a mig.
As for budget, well I guess go for the best you can afford. Approx 20 years ago, I bought a SIP Autoplus 160 mig, which I thought would see me through 5+years, and i am still using it today in it's original configuration, so maybe my skills can cope with a "cheaper" machine if that makes sense. I know what I want to do with it, and do it. Have never had a problem with thinking "I need a bigger/better machine"
There is a danger with any hobby or profession for that matter of having "all the gear and no idea" Again that is not aimed at you, So I guess you have to look at your long term aim.

I hope that's come across the right way there

 

[brightspark]

I have to say, respectfully, you seem a little vague on what you want to do with this kit.

but wading through the question, I think with the experience you have, and what you want to do, I'd go for a MIG. You will be able to do pretty much all of your work (as I see it) with a mig.
As for budget, well I guess go for the best you can afford. Approx 20 years ago, I bought a SIP Autoplus 160 mig, which I thought would see me through 5+years, and i am still using it today in it's original configuration, so maybe my skills can cope with a "cheaper" machine if that makes sense. I know what I want to do with it, and do it. Have never had a problem with thinking "I need a bigger/better machine"
There is a danger with any hobby or profession for that matter of having "all the gear and no idea" Again that is not aimed at you, So I guess you have to look at your long term aim.

I hope that's come across the right way there

hats off to people that can buy something budget price and master it. most just shell out big bucks and away u go

 

[danelectro]

hats off to people that can buy something budget price and master it. most just shell out big bucks and away u go

I'd hate to think what would happen if I won the lottery and bought myself a top class mig!!!! probably be totally confused!!!!!

I'm thinking (maybe wrongly) that there's a danger with this sort of thing to get carried away with having the best kit, instead of getting the kit to use as was intended, i.e a tool. If the tool works, then hey presto!!!!!

 

[Iain Westland]

my son can clap guitar like a wizard, very quick solos when he needs to. He practices on an acoustic, much harder than one of his electrics.

If you go straight in with the good kit, they flatter your welding, but without the experience you wont know if they 'pretty' weld is actually doing anything bar aesthetics.

I learnt on a decent snap-on rig, then it went ta-tas and I had to learn to weld properly on a clarke 160EN. Now I have a GYS three phase machine and its wonderful. But I know the welds are more than cosmetic

iain

 

[malcolm]

I can't see how it would make you a better welder if you have to compensate for the machine all the time. It made me a worse welder as compensating for a machine got me into some bad habits.

At £300 the Clarke range is probably worth a look. The ones I've used do function correctly when they are in good condition, but there are some others in similar price ranges that don't function properly at all.

 

[danelectro]

Personally I feel that if you have the skills, you can operate any machine. yeah I'm sure if you have top nothc kit, then you have more flexibility, but that doesn't make you a better or worse welder, at the end of the day, it's all about getting the result you want.

 

[malcolm]

Probably I don't have the skills then. Won't be the cheap nasty MIGs with rubbish wire feeds or silly OCVs or anything like that which prevent good work.

I find the learning mig section on the forum interesting. If you think someone is doing well or badly check which machines they are using. You'll notice some trends.

 

[danelectro]

Probably I don't have the skills then. Won't be the cheap nasty MIGs with rubbish wire feeds or silly OCVs or anything like that which prevent good work.

I find the learning mig section on the forum interesting. If you think someone is doing well or badly check which machines they are using. You'll notice some trends.

As I said, I was talking personally. Having restored over 20 cars over the years, my Autoplus has always served me well, and I have never had an issue with this kit.
Perhaps my views are coming across wrong. yes you can get an idea of how someone's doing by which welder, but how do you gauge ability??

 

[malcolm]

Ability is learned. So you could perhaps judge ability by whether the welder has managed to learn anything.

I'm quite anti anything cheaper than the Clarkes as time and time again people don't manage to learn on them. They give up and the cheapo welders become ship anchors. Every time someone joins in saying "I've just bought a cheap Chinese welder" you just know they aren't going to get anywhere with it.

 

[danelectro]

Ability is learned. So you could perhaps judge ability by whether the welder has managed to learn anything.

I'm quite anti anything cheaper than the Clarkes as time and time again people don't manage to learn on them. They give up and the cheapo welders become ship anchors. Every time someone joins in saying "I've just bought a cheap Chinese welder" you just know they aren't going to get anywhere with it.

Yes, I have to agree there, dirt cheap isn't good, so I will step down from my soapbox.

Although my Autoplus wasn't a fortune, but a jolly good tool.