Jasic welders

[Chris Stevens]

Lincolns new stuff is seemingly chinese and they have a rep stateside for punting junk via homedepot (migs with weird power settings for starters)
Miller seemingly now also in home depot...hopefully they don't start the same...

Seems lincoln is run by the beancounters now...shame...they used to make some lovely kit...

Talked to someone from a well known equipment supplier a couple of weeks ago, who actually sell Lincoln, and admitted the newer stuff isnt up to much.

I guess though manufacturers feel if they dont sell junk, they will be losing out to those that do, hence people like Snap-On selling Chinese made tools?

 

[hotrodder]

It's a similar category to the powermig 210 or whatever that was they brought out 6 months ago.very cheap but hey.View attachment 73097
60-150 hz ac and 20pps max

Also marketed towards hobby/light use by the looks of things, i'm thinking it's their idea of a competitor to the Miller/Hobart econotig? http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/global/Products/K5126-1/e338.pdf The powermig 210 looks to be a 3in1 type deal, like Chris said i'm thinking these sorts of product lines exist to try and get in a foot in the cheaper end of the market. Personally i think their bigger problem is stuff like the v205 are ancient and overpriced nowdays. Especially compared to European kit

 

[Rudi McAnichal]

are we talking about Powercraft by Lincoln

Powercraft? isn’t that an Aldi registered trademark?

But to be serious, does anybody know what Chinese industry uses? They cannot be building all those cars, ships, etc with the aid of flimsy hobby-type welders. Do they export heavy duty welders? If not, they probably will soon.

 

[s410man]

I've got a little jasic inverter here for on site welding

Bought because of the 5 year warranty otherwise I'd of had a lorch same as my mig

So far very pleased but only gets used about once a week onsite

 

[Chris Stevens]

They generally buy 1 from us, copy and mass produce it or if they're unable to make a decent copy...only then do they buy more...(old man worked for a company where that happened...the Chinese bought one for "appraisal" and came back 18 months later for more...heard through back channels that they had tried and tried to copy it...but couldn't get it working properly...so grudgingly had ordered more from the company my old man worked for and ended up paying for someone to fly out to commission it as they made a pigs ear of it...)

Had a long chat to someone in the welding equipment trade, who had been to a trade show in China. He said there were what were obviously direct copies of several well known high quality European sets. Only problem was when they were tried, they didnt actually work! I get the feeling that the better known budget Chinese equipment such as Thermal Arc and Parweld, is probably a very good choice for occasional use, but not sure about others who suggest their budget gear is industrial standard, and provide equipment FOC in exchange for "reviews"?

 

[dan.taylor.1]

We use a couple of their 250/300a migs on 1mm wire at the sculpture spot I work at. They lay a lovely bead, theres a few cheaper bits on themlike the handle on the front being a bit flimsy, but we've had no trouble so far.

 

[ukracer]

Trouble is the so called "reviews" of Chinese gear are carried out by people who seem to have been given the gear FOC, which isnt likely to mean they are going to want to point out any obvious issues, which would mean the flow of FOC equipment quickly dried up.

I guess Chinese gear is fine for occasional light use, but not heard of anyone using it successfully in any sort of regular industrial capacity, so I would ignore the so called "reviews" and stick to what you know works for you.

Surely that is calling into question u tubers such as @doubleboost and one thing I would stake my house on is John's integrity

I used to get free air rifles to review and they always had a genuine review. I was laughed at for actually shooting the things other reviewers never even bothered......I stopped reviewing after that. Lol

 

[matt1978]

Powercraft? isn’t that an Aldi registered trademark?

But to be serious, does anybody know what Chinese industry uses? They cannot be building all those cars, ships, etc with the aid of flimsy hobby-type welders. Do they export heavy duty welders? If not, they probably will soon.

Without doubt two of the single largest and strategically important markets for any well known manufacture (Lincoln, Esab, Fronius, LORCH, EWM etc etc) is India and China.

The sales of western welding machines and consumables into these countries is staggering we are talking collectively hundeads of millions of dollars in sales, I have said it before but in general terms for all main fabrication and especially large infrastructure projects the locally produced equipment and consumables generally never get a look in. There is a reason for this. Generally speaking the performance and quality of the industrial equipment isn't even widely recognised nor accepted within their own countries let alone in mainland Europe and America.

We all know how "cheap" in comparison some of these machines and consumables can be and that's comparing prices we would pay in Europe, with significant shipping costs and import taxes applied, so imagine how much cheaper these are within their own markets and the demand for western welding equipment is still huge. Maybe this will change in the future but that's pretty much the case as we speak

 

[matt1978]

Surely that is calling into question u tubers such as @doubleboost and one thing I would stake my house on is John's integrity

I used to get free air rifles to review and they always had a genuine review. I was laughed at for actually shooting the things other reviewers never even bothered......I stopped reviewing after that. Lol

I don't think that he was taking a swipe at Doubleboost. I think he meant more so the everlast reviews etc that you can find on YouTube.

But it's still the case that in most (not all) that a lot of favourable reviews on these type of products from these type of manufacturers is almost always based on someone welding at home in the garage or shed for what can be described at best very light industrial and more often a weekly hobby. That's not to say the opinions and reviews of said people are not valid, but it also has to be taken into context when people are asking about machines for full blown industrial use in a dirty dusty environment that the owner needs to use to earn money from everyday

 

[blenkie1]

Jasic seem to be getting pushed a lot. There are 3 welding/engineering dealers around here and they all sell Jasic and all seem to push them. Who else would or can offer a 5 year warranty? I only know one person who has one and he said its been no problem just needs a bigger one. I think only time will tell if they are good enough to be used in a full on workshop with the dirt and dust. Its not just the machines we are looking at as well though its the aftersales service.

 

[Chris Stevens]

I don't think that he was taking a swipe at Doubleboost. I think he meant more so the everlast reviews etc that you can find on YouTube.

But it's still the case that in most (not all) that a lot of favourable reviews on these type of products from these type of manufacturers is almost always based on someone welding at home in the garage or shed for what can be described at best very light industrial and more often a weekly hobby. That's not to say the opinions and reviews of said people are not valid, but it also has to be taken into context when people are asking about machines for full blown industrial use in a dirty dusty environment that the owner needs to use to earn money from everyday

Everlast in the US, are essentially the same machines that are sold as R-Tech here in the UK. For occasional hobby use I would say this type of equipment is fine, but they are not industrial standard, and a 20 minute "review" from someone who may have been provided with the gear FOC, is not likely to be particularly objective or helpful in determining long term reliability, or even the quality of things like torches, which I think is quite important if you are a beginner particularly.

 

[Kent]

I should certainly test one were you are based as service and repair is only minutes away.
Write it down over its warranty period and sell it on imo
Remember it needs to go to Wilkinson for its services for warranty to remain active. Again not much of an issue for you
I try and not buy anything Italian period I think they value form over function and lack quality controls well that or too much vino on lunch break?

 

[Tinbasherdan]

Jasic seem to be getting pushed a lot. There are 3 welding/engineering dealers around here and they all sell Jasic and all seem to push them. Who else would or can offer a 5 year warranty? I only know one person who has one and he said its been no problem just needs a bigger one. I think only time will tell if they are good enough to be used in a full on workshop with the dirt and dust. Its not just the machines we are looking at as well though its the aftersales service.

I think stuff like jasic gets pushed by suppliers as they are more likely to sell 20 machines at jasic prices than probably 10 or even 5 at Lincoln industrial/esab/lorch prices, despite the fact your Chinese wonder box might go back every two weeks for another fault, your brains still saying, well it was cheaper, AND they'll do this for 5 years!

 

[blenkie1]

I think stuff like jasic gets pushed by suppliers as they are more likely to sell 20 machines at jasic prices than probably 10 or even 5 at Lincoln industrial/esab/lorch prices, despite the fact your Chinese wonder box might go back every two weeks for another fault, your brains still saying, well it was cheaper, AND they'll do this for 5 years!

Mind you dan you could get maybe get 2 machines for the same price so you could always have a spare! Big brand names fail just as well. My Lincoln did after 2 years and with not a lot of use. Like I said only time will tell about the quality and reliability. The question is will they get there. A local man I do a far bit for sells a lot of mining equipment to China for a German firm. He says they are now starting to make stuff to a ok quality and his sales are starting to slide. He said they are not at that level to match European made stuff but his thoughts are in 10 possibly less they will get there.

 

[Chris Stevens]

At the end of the day if a supplier can sell 20 budget price Chinese machines against 5 industrial standard, they will have made more money. Get the feeling thats the main reason the Chinese stuff is pushed so hard, without much regard to long term reliability or durability.

 

[ukracer]

At the end of the day if a supplier can sell 20 budget price Chinese machines against 5 industrial standard, they will have made more money. Get the feeling thats the main reason the Chinese stuff is pushed so hard, without much regard to long term reliability or durability.

I have 3 R-Tech machines and not one of them has been back under warranty. I can add another two years if I choose

I paid the same price as available to any of the public.

I do not do reviews .

I like their business model.

 

[matt1978]

I love the look of the Kia Sportage but I have to admit I was shocked at the price.

I think that's the key. I am 100% sure that for smaller "simpler" machines such as 230v MMA units and 230v DC Tigs the Chinese are now able to produce machine quality and performance to rival most European brands. But if they did this the cost ratio would simerla as well. The market now, is awash with Chinese made 230v DC Tigs and MMA units and in many cases much cheaper than the top European equivalents but as we speak the are simply not the same build quality. This partly explains the differential in price. That's not to say that the cheaper end of the market doesn't fulfill 100% of the tasks that someone at the DIY/Lighter industrial end of the scale would want from such a machine. But if your comparing brass tacks as we speak the quality is simply not the same.

I also believe in the future that the Chinese will be producing industrial quality and performing large machines to rival most European quality brands but when they do, I am willing to wager that the prices will also be on par.

Quality, performance and innovation costs money, regardless of the country of origin and up until now the major factor that Chinese machines are associated with low cost, is because they ARE low cost. Lower cost, generally poorer quality components and design.

 

[Chris Stevens]

I have 3 R-Tech machines and not one of them has been back under warranty. I can add another two years if I choose

I paid the same price as available to any of the public.

I do not to reviews .

I like their business model.

Do you use these machines for production or industrial work, and if so wonder whether you were influenced by companies such as Rolls Royce, Morgan, Land Rover, and Network Rail all being users of R-Tech equipment?

 

[matt1978]

PDG I agree with what you say, but to bring in line with the point I was making, how are these same Japanese products priced within the market place now that the quality and performance is very good?

It would be silly of any of us to assume that China doesn't have the expertise nor caperbility, heck they are probably churning out more highly educated design, electronic and mechanical engineers that most of Western Europe put together. It's simpler than that, not everything from China is cheap and nasty, the things that are cheap and nasty are designed and deliberately built to be cheap and nasty.

 

[Chris Stevens]

You've really got an axe to grind against R-tech haven't you?

How long ago did they sack you again?

Not at all, but I do find dodgy advertising does reflect very much on the integrity of the advertiser. Wonder if anyone would take a car manufacturer who suggested a 3ltr 4WD would return 100mpg all that seriously?