Is there a power limit for a 1ph supply?

[hotponyshoes]

Presuming an inverter based machine on a single-phase 230v supply...

Is there a (theoretical/practical/realistic) limit to the welders output?

Reason for asking is:
I currently have a 180a mig.
Same manafacture has now released a 220a version.
I'd upgrade but don't actually have any reason to do so at the moment so I would hold off until I actually need the extra power for a job just incase they release a 250a version in a few years.

But I'm wondering if a 250a+ 1ph inverter mig is possible?

My maths says yes, any output power is possible providing you have enough input amps to feed it.
But my maths also says that, even if a welder was only 80% efficient you should be able to get 295a from a 32a supply and I don't think I've seen an inverter based mig close to that yet?

What's holding them back?
Just lack of demand for that sort of power from 1ph?
Or technical/cost issues with making them?

 

[Wildefalcon]

I suspect it's to do with the thickness of wires in 1 phase installations. So demand isn't there.

Most needing that amount of power, commercial battleship builders, etc, would have 3 phase.

 

[Chippie]

I’d hazard a guess and say the maximum theoretical input is limited by the incoming fused supply….think mine is 100A, giving me access to around 24kva not accounting for power factor…would need a big plug and heavy gauge wires…

 

[Bornfree]

Sip do a 250amp 1ph inverter mig I've used one seemed a nice machine

 

[eddie49]

Warrior ( Phil Weeks ) do a 350 Amp single-phase inverter MIG, running off a 32A plug:

Warrior 350 Single Phase MIG Welder - Warrior Welders

The Warrior 350 Single-Phase MIG Welder is possibly the most powerful 240V single-phase inverter MIG welder on the market. It is especially designed for heavy fabrication where only a single phase 240V/32A supply is available. Weighing 43kg, including an internal 15kg wire spool, this welding...

www.warriorwelders.com

 

[Erie Fred]

I have seen 800 amp single phase supplies at farms that don't have 3-phase available.
Crop dryers don't run on propane alone ya know....

 

[hotponyshoes]

Warrior ( Phil Weeks ) do a 350 Amp single-phase inverter MIG, running off a 32A plug:

Warrior 350 Single Phase MIG Welder - Warrior Welders

The Warrior 350 Single-Phase MIG Welder is possibly the most powerful 240V single-phase inverter MIG welder on the market. It is especially designed for heavy fabrication where only a single phase 240V/32A supply is available. Weighing 43kg, including an internal 15kg wire spool, this welding...

www.warriorwelders.com

Impressive. Especially if the 350a/100% duty cycle is correct!

 

[Erie Fred]

Impressive. Especially if the 350a/100% duty cycle is correct!

Next your gonna need a 20 ton overhead crane to bring in all that 1"( 25mm) Thick plate your welding.....

 

[Erie Fred]

Spot on! A pretty big flash on striking an arc.

I wonder how large the welding rod would need to be?

Sub-arc, no helmut needed....

 

[hotponyshoes]

Next your gonna need a 20 ton overhead crane to bring in all that 1"( 25mm) Thick plate your welding.....

Me and a couple of other guys keep thinking about building an aluminium fishing boat.
The plans we have been looking at are around 1/4" so don't really need the capabilities to weld 1" but, in my experience, you'll need a powerful welder to get a decent duty cycle which would be necessary for something like a boat hull if you wanted to weld it all up in a reasonable time frame..

 

[arther dailey]

Impressive. Especially if the 350a/100% duty cycle is correct!

oxford do over 400amp on single phase.

 

[steve t]

I have a single phase 250 amp sip inverter with a separate wire feed will burn through 6mm plate

 

[Fazerruss]

Oxford (TecArc) do big single phase machines.
I have a 330 running off a 32 amp supply.
The one thing that surprised me is how small it is for a transformer machine. It's actually the same size as my old migatronic 180






This is 50×12 flat bar welded to 100x100x6 shs

 

[MattH]

I have a single phase Paton that will do 250A from a 32a supply.

 

[Turbo]

Because of the efficiency of modern inverters it means that they will give closer to their maximum output on less than ideal supplies than their older transformer based equivalents.

@Gareth0123 ran a 250a Rtech, doing work on farm buildings which usually have the bare minimum of power supplies.

 

[Gareth0123]

Because of the efficiency of modern inverters it means that they will give closer to their maximum output on less than ideal supplies than their older transformer based equivalents.

@Gareth0123 ran a 250a Rtech, doing work on farm buildings which usually have the bare minimum of power supplies.

That was off a 13amp supply with at least 50 metres of extension cable run out to my welder.
Most of the work was on 75 x 75 x 3 box section posts and 1.6mm wall thickness gate tubes but there was also some up hill multi pass 10mm thick hinge plates welded onto universal columns.

The only issue we had all day was when the farmer insisted on using an ancient 2000 watt X 9 inch angle grinder with a 3mm cutting disc when he wouldn't have it that my 850 watt X 115 angle grinder with a 1mm slitting disc would be a lot faster and wouldn't blow the ancient wire fuses in the panel.

 

[Rrobson]

I believe Tec arc (or Oxford) actually did a 400 amp single phase set too. 63amp plug required for that and I’d be surprised if the neighbours lights weren’t dimming every time you fired it up… it would definitely check the condition of the supply and associated cables to the house if nothing else!
I’ve got a 250amp Tec arc which has been used at full chat a couple of times. no issues with home supply. Although it does seem more powerful than 250amp, closer to 300 going off the way it welds and comparison to other larger welders I’ve used. It easy blows holes in 6mm plate anyway!

 

[Gareth J]

I recently learnt that you can't draw more than 13A from a single phase supply, doesn't matter which plug you use.... unless that was just for motors...!

Inverters are definitely more efficient. I've a "240 A" transformer machine, which according to the dataplate can draw 51A at 220V full chat. It works on a 32A plug but will knock the incoming supply about enough to make the solar inverter think there's a problem.

Check your incoming supply fuse for a rough guide. Ours is 100A, is 50% of that a sensible rule of thumb? What happens to the supply if you suddenly start drawing a chunk of amps might be hard to work out, your local DNO could probably model it for you for a price. Or you could, potentially play about with monitoring and dump loads.

If you're down the end of a marginal line with a couple houses on it, might be less robust than if tapped into a bigger transformer nearby.

 

[hotponyshoes]

There is a 100a supply in the workshop and it does actually seem to deliver that if required.
Lights have all been changed for led recently so they are all running on a 6a.

I'd guess that leaves me the remaining 94a to play with.

If I was welding anything at higher power I'd probably be running a fume extractor (10a) but noting else while actually welding apart from the lights.

So I'd guess I could put in a 63a socket if required.

Although, I don't really want to buy a bigger machine unless I can use it to replace one I already have which means inverter as I'd need it to be portable.

If something like the warrior linked above can do 350a on a 32a socket though it looks like the supply is not really an issue anyway!