Is the use of a handbrake or parking brake still taught?

[indy4x]

I called into the Tesco petrol station in Glynneath at the bottom of the A465 hill one day. There was a tanker discharging petrol. The smell of burning brakes was awful and I could see smoke still coming from the wheels. I asked the driver what was wrong and he said - oh it always does it after that hill. Needless to say when I asked him if he used his gears I was told there is no need to do that on modern lorries.................

I can remember that being built when I was a nipper, had a bird's eye view from the back of our house of most of it.

Wonder how much worse his brakes would have been if he'd come down the old Glynneath bank

 

[fizzy]

I can remember that being built when I was a nipper, had a bird's eye view from the back of our house of most of it.

Wonder how much worse his brakes would have been if he'd come down the old Glynneath bank

Yes he could have done with the escape lane that no longer exists!

 

[GW8IZR]

Just thinking about this - on a surface where I'm likely to lose traction I have always preferred the retardation to be shared across all bits of rubber touching the ground rather than just the driven axle(s) and with open diff's potentially just one(two) wheels.

I do know for sure that having driven the clever RR off road with its traction aids it piddles all over a 'traditional' LR and I can't see any reason why that won't translate to wet roads.

 

[fizzy]

Just thinking about this - on a surface where I'm likely to lose traction I have always preferred the retardation to be shared across all bits of rubber touching the ground rather than just the driven axle(s) and with open diff's potentially just one(two) wheels.

I do know for sure that having driven the clever RR off road with its traction aids it piddles all over a 'traditional' LR and I can't see any reason why that won't translate to wet roads.

Yes they are incredible now but remember hill descent control etc is constantly applying the brakes. On a long downhill they will still cook.
On ice and snow though they are a godsend - really far better than you would ever believe if you haven't driven one. Even the humble Freelander 2 was awesome in the slippery stuff.

 

[GW8IZR]

Yes they are incredible now but remember hill descent control etc is constantly applying the brakes. On a long downhill they will still cook.
On ice and snow though they are a godsend - really far better than you would ever believe if you haven't driven one. Even the humble Freelander 2 was awesome in the slippery stuff.

I liked our old FL2 but we never had need to tow with it so I can't comment on potential for brake fade.

I was more thinking about the aforementioned tanker on a steep descent, using engine braking (alone) would mean just the two tractor driven axles would be responsible for friction whereas using the brakes would spread the retardation over all wheels albeit not necessarily evenly.

I know with certainty that once a traditional 4x4 is cross axled the engine braking effort disappears and the sudden lurch in speed can make traction more difficult to recover than IMO correct careful use of the brakes.

 

[fizzy]

Obviously for sudden stops etc then yes or if the roads are slippery - many a time I have had to accelerate in snow or ice to regain control.
And talking of the FL2 I have to say it was the best car I have ever driven in heavy rain - resistance to aquaplaning was exceptional. Probably down to tyre size being optimal for the car. The Range Rovers and Discoveries I have driven have had wider tyres and aquaplaned like everything else. 275 tyres I ask you!!!

 

[Paul G]

I have two cars with a proper handbrake, by proper I mean on the transmission tunnel and pulling on a pair of cables.
These I use as they are intended.

My other car is an auto and has some weird ratchet left foot thing that's up the side of the transmission tunnel almost under the dash
that when you operate makes you feel like a male dog urinating up a lamp post. This is released with a handle to the right and under
the dash, that to operate you need to lean forward slowly, otherwise the inertia seat belt locks, then release it with a bang.

So please excuse me if 99% of the time I come to a stop and sit with my foot on the brake. Do I care ? Yes, naturally I care. About
the same amount as thousands of drivers that drive with fog lights on when visibility is about fifty light years.


Oo'er. I dunno what come over me then.

 

[GW8IZR]

Obviously for sudden stops etc then yes or if the roads are slippery - many a time I have had to accelerate in snow or ice to regain control.
And talking of the FL2 I have to say it was the best car I have ever driven in heavy rain - resistance to aquaplaning was exceptional. Probably down to tyre size being optimal for the car. The Range Rovers and Discoveries I have driven have had wider tyres and aquaplaned like everything else. 275 tyres I ask you!!!

What can I say, our family 4x4 road car has 20 inch tyres that appear to be painted on the rims and are as wide as a tractor tyre... I wouldn't take it in the field ;-)

 

[fizzy]

I had an audi a4 for a week or 3 - 140bhp and yet the tyres were the same width as the Jag XFR 510bhp I had! 255 section - they totally ruined the handling and were terrifying in the wet!

 

[Robotstar5]

Yes they are incredible now but remember hill descent control etc is constantly applying the brakes. On a long downhill they will still cook.
On ice and snow though they are a godsend - really far better than you would ever believe if you haven't driven one. Even the humble Freelander 2 was awesome in the slippery stuff.

If the HDC system detects overheating it will disengage until the temperature drops

 

[Robotstar5]

So will it disengage if you happen to be halfway down a long tricky descent at the time?

So you go back to basics learned before electronic aids

 

[normspanners]

I was more thinking about the aforementioned tanker on a steep descent, using engine braking (alone) would mean just the two tractor driven axles would be responsible for friction whereas using the brakes would spread the retardation over all wheels albeit not necessarily evenly.

Whilst I listen to what you are saying, but IMO if you where a truck/bus driver you would have crashed by now, trucks/busses are designed to be retarded by the engine and have exhauster brakes /electronic retarders for buses (quieter) you can come down some serious hills without touching the brakes, in fact I came down 4000 M in switzerland from well above the snowline, down a hairpins decent in an 20 ton truck and at the bottom the brakes where barely warm, I used the exhauster brake it saves wear on the brakes BUT it means the service brake which should be mainly for emergencies and is ready and more importantly cold for when mr D head pulls out or a kid runs out in front of you, if you had used the brakes for even half of the decent the service brakes would be a lot less than half as efficient and at the bottom useless, as well as having 2mm worn off them and distorted disc/ drums.
A decent truck driver never uses his brakes on a hill if he can avoid it, for all the above reasons.
The young lad that killed several people ^^^ they said he was not at fault, was rubbish IMO. you know when you are reaching the point of no return and using the gears can get yourself down to walking speed with even no brakes. BUT you would never let it get to that situation and sorted the problem before it started. The lad was inexperienced I can almost guarantee it, some judge sitting in court listening to verbal crap fed to him,he is a man that has never sat in truck he cannot judge correctly IMO http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ol-hill-somerset-matthew-gordon-a7550526.html

light reading http://www.trucknetuk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=148379

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_brake

 

[Rocketman]

I wasn't pushing my opinion as fact - but I do notice quite a few "citation required" moments in your post...

Don't think I wrote anything out of context, the test is more involved, you need to know more about things on a car (show and tell for example) and examiners are under greater scrutiny of their standards. What you can't keep off the road is hot head young lads which has always been the biggest problem.

Now as hard as it is to take women are better drivers or at least safer drivers causing far fewer accidents which without being sexist is going a bit against this theory of knowing all the stuff about cars.

Going back to the OP's original question. From the horses mouth you could pass the test without using the handbrake once - if you are fully in control of the car. Though it would be probably mentioned at the end of the test. From what I can tell it's rare for no use.
I think people just get lazy and don't use them after passing tests.

 

[normspanners]

I passed my truck test and hardly used the parking brake, I never use the parking brakes for hill starts, I use the foot brake and I dont hold it on the clutch, I hold it on the brake and start with clutch, and as far as over clutch use goes, to give you an idea I bought a car with a slight slipping clutch that was just starting, and drove it for 18mths before it needed replacing and that was coz I was being moaned at by the wife

I think people just get lazy and don't use them after passing tests.

I think it is lazy actually using the hand brake. Also I rarely use the clutch for gear changes.

 

[normspanners]

As an aside - I couldn't have passed my test without using the handbrake because it's a specified part of the hill start.

I'm Not so sure about that.

https://www.diaryofanadi.co.uk/?s=hand+brake+

This is no longer anywhere to be found, and there is no specific mention of when to and when not to use the handbrake other than that the car should be in neutral with the handbrake on when the engine is started (which is actually confusing, as people will take it to mean that you should go into neutral if you stall).

When is it compulsory to use the hand brake?

It isn’t. You should use the hand brake whenever it would help you prevent the car from rolling backwards or forwards when it isn’t supposed to. In theory, it would be possible to not use the hand brake at all on your test and still not get faulted for it. However, the reality is that there will be times when not using it is just stupid and asking for trouble, and much will depend on the kinds of roads you’re driving on.

http://www.drivingtesttips.biz/driving-test-report.html#prettyPhoto/0/

nothing about hill starts and parking brake in fact when I did my hgv test I didnt use my parking brake on a hill start during the test, Coz with the scania there is along delay before the brake disengages, all the examiner said was, some of my methods were 'unconventional' but I passed on first go


Expand

 

[GW8IZR]

Whilst I listen to what you are saying, but IMO if you where a truck/bus driver you would have crashed by now,

I would respectfully disagree.. because *if* I were a professional truck driver I would use the appropriate technology available to control my vehicle.

Because I ALWAYS

BUT you would never let it get to that situation and sorted the problem before it started.

 

[indy4x]

Yes he could have done with the escape lane that no longer exists!

Didn't realise they had taken it away, been a few years since I drove the old bank.

I can remember before the escape lane was there, at the bottom of the hill the sharp right hander caught a few peeps out

 

[fizzy]

Didn't realise they had taken it away, been a few years since I drove the old bank.

I can remember before the escape lane was there, at the bottom of the hill the sharp right hander caught a few peeps out

They haven't taken it away - nice shiny new sign there but it is totally overgrown and full of trees!!!

 

[normspanners]

but it is totally overgrown and full of trees!!!

All the better to stop you with !!! it firms the sand u,p a bit of roots in there

 

[Ed.]

I got my license in 1972 on a 3 speed plus reverse manual car and in those days I was taught to use the gears to slow down the vehicle then apply the foot brake, and just before you stopped you would push your clutch in, use the foot brakes to stop, put the hand brake on and then put it into neutral from the 1st gear that you would be in by then, and also to keep your foot on the brake until you got moving again. Going down a hill same thing but using your foot brakes to help wash off the speed if the gearbox wasn't able to slow you down enough.

A couple more years later when I got my heavy semi license, it was pretty much the same thing except that I would use the engine brakes as well and only apply the foot brakes when that wasn't enough. Now 45 years on I drive an 8 speed diesel automatic with a foot operated hand brake and hill assist start, I still always keep the foot brake on when stationary even though it has hill assist start, and going down steep roads I use the gears selected manually using the steering column paddle shifters and foot brakes if necessary.

In my opinion foot operated hand brakes and paddle shifters on the steering column are a pain in the backside and should be abolished, and I will always keep my foot on the brake when sitting at the red lights. Only time I don't is when stationary and there is a long delay due to roadworks or something similar, then it's foot handbrake on and the auto gearbox in park.