Is anyone here separating ethanol from their petrol?

[prepman]

Been using Esso's Synergy Supreme+ 99 on on mine and others aircraft engines. seen what happens to fuel that is left in hangger for 5 months over winter, the Ethanol absorbed water and created some wired slime in the tank on clubs mircrolite, it was grim.
also using it in anything that stands for a month or more like lawnmower or leaf blower = lot less varnishing in carbs.

My Kawsaki quadbike needed complete system flush and carb disassembly. My JD2040 diesel tractor on the otherhand just starts first turn after year idle.

 

[Greeves246]

Bull sht is the only thing any dealers know. I'd suggest he'd like to sell more Aspen

E5/E10 may rot fuel hoses and rubbers but they are cheap enough to not care about it.

Im interested how these fuel additive/stabilisers work. As water can easily cause ethanol to seperate out - these fuel additive protections cant really stop that. One claims to coat a tank in oil to prevent rust and also to remove water. Does that mean:

- it binds water and brings it back into the fuel mix to be burnt.

- Physically removes it from the tank - how?

- Binds/crystalises it out into a solid that wont rust or go through a filter.

Would be interesting to experiment with if I had space for a chemistry set!

I believe some of the fuel treatments are alcohol based. This takes the water and stops it from separating. I’ve seen a number of bike tanks with rust on the bottom because of water. Any bike not being used over winter I drain and refill with fresh in Spring.

 

[addjunkie]

My Kawsaki quadbike needed complete system flush and carb disassembly. My JD2040 diesel tractor on the other hand just starts first turn after year idle.

I use my quad everyday, but still use petrol with treatment added. My tractor is pampered and along with the digger though rarely used in winter, get run and moved regularly. Have a 1.5m petrol flail mower, I disconnect the fuel hose, run it dry, then just use the left over juice through the quad. Apart from having to charge the battery, doesn't seem to have done it any harm just standing.

I believe some of the fuel treatments are alcohol based. This takes the water and stops it from separating. I’ve seen a number of bike tanks with rust on the bottom because of water. Any bike not being used over winter I drain and refill with fresh in Spring.

As for bikes not been used, start them up, charge the battery, circulate the oil, turn the wheels, keep the brakes free etc
Chain saw, strimmer and sthil saw due to low use I just use aspen type fuel.

 

[rcx132]

Bull sht is the only thing any dealers know. I'd suggest he'd like to sell more Aspen

E5/E10 may rot fuel hoses and rubbers but they are cheap enough to not care about it.

Im interested how these fuel additive/stabilisers work. As water can easily cause ethanol to seperate out - these fuel additive protections cant really stop that. One claims to coat a tank in oil to prevent rust and also to remove water. Does that mean:

- it binds water and brings it back into the fuel mix to be burnt.

- Physically removes it from the tank - how?

- Binds/crystalises it out into a solid that wont rust or go through a filter.

Would be interesting to experiment with if I had space for a chemistry set!

Project Farm tested the stabilisers and found they do very little to protect against ethanol.

 

[Erie Fred]

Been using Esso's Synergy Supreme+ 99 on on mine and others aircraft engines. seen what happens to fuel that is left in hangger for 5 months over winter, the Ethanol absorbed water and created some wired slime in the tank on clubs mircrolite, it was grim.
also using it in anything that stands for a month or more like lawnmower or leaf blower = lot less varnishing in carbs.

certified aircraft ?
IIRC we can only use 100ll unless you apply for a "autogas" exemption, and I flew a c-175 that had problems running on autogas, so the owner went back to the good stuff.

 

[zx9]

Just from personal experience I am happy with E5, the ZX9R was laid up as usual in Autumn 2019 I basically just ran it until the float bowls emptied and left it with 1/2 a tank of E5. Then CrowVid and a few other things happened so the bike was SORN'd until summer this year, it started fine on the remaining 3 & 1/2 year old E5.

Talking to others with little used older Japanese bikes, one thought is that they have been able to use E10 since before 2000 or when ever California brought it in, I will let our American friends tell us when that was, but I expect the same applies to a lot of vehicles.

 

[Dozzer]

certified aircraft ?
IIRC we can only use 100ll unless you apply for a "autogas" exemption, and I flew a c-175 that had problems running on autogas, so the owner went back to the good stuff.

Uk all depends on what the engine has been certified to, most rotax 912 variants are Mogas approved, some of the smaller lycoming units are mogas, but all the larger continentals are Avgas, 100 leaded.
Its the lack of lead that causes most of the problems with aircraft engines.
Some of the classic car guys go to the local airfields to buy avgas for their engines.
But at around £1.80ltr it ain't cheep.

 

[Wedg1e]

Just from personal experience I am happy with E5, the ZX9R was laid up as usual in Autumn 2019 I basically just ran it until the float bowls emptied and left it with 1/2 a tank of E5. Then CrowVid and a few other things happened so the bike was SORN'd until summer this year, it started fine on the remaining 3 & 1/2 year old E5.

Talking to others with little used older Japanese bikes, one thought is that they have been able to use E10 since before 2000 or when ever California brought it in, I will let our American friends tell us when that was, but I expect the same applies to a lot of vehicles.

Jap bikes mostly fine, but as my mate found out, an Aprilia Futura with its plastic tank does not like Ethanol.
Bike went somewhere to be tuned, they took the tank off and then had a hell of a job getting it back into the frame as, having already swollen from the Ethanol, it 'sprang' when they removed it.

A few years back I inadvertently filled my last ST1300 with about 75% diesel; it was a bit reluctant to start but the hotter it got, it smoothed out (albeit rather down on power). Made a bit of smoke mind, so I wasn't popular up on the Stelvio pass

 

[rcx132]

The Project Farm video showed that Ethanol fuel caused the aluminium to corrode. He left a piece of carb body in the fuel for 9 months and the corrosion was criminal, whereas the pure gas control was completely free of corrosion. I didn't catch what level of ethanol he tested, I heard they use 15% over their side of the pond due to the farming industry lobbying for the new found market for alcohol.

 

[chrismac]

The Project Farm video showed that Ethanol fuel caused the aluminium to corrode. He left a piece of carb body in the fuel for 9 months and the corrosion was criminal, whereas the pure gas control was completely free of corrosion. I didn't catch what level of ethanol he tested, I heard they use 15% over their side of the pond due to the farming industry lobbying for the new found market for alcohol.

I watched the video, well most if it, there was some benefits to using the stabiliser, one type of fuel was different to what we have here. I watched it 6 hours ago so cant remember exactly.

Who are project farm out of interest, that was certainly a long term test they carried out in that example.

 

[rcx132]

I watched the video, well most if it, there was some benefits to using the stabiliser, one type of fuel was different to what we have here. I watched it 6 hours ago so cant remember exactly.

Who are project farm out of interest, that was certainly a long term test they carried out in that example.

Project Farm is a common example of popular YouTube channels a guy reviewed and tested a product on YouTube, people liked it and the channel grew beyond all expectations. He mainly tests farm type products. His tests are practical rather than precise but he does good work. So long as you can put up with his style of talking.

 

[Erie Fred]

Uk all depends on what the engine has been certified to, most rotax 912 variants are Mogas approved, some of the smaller lycoming units are mogas, but all the larger continentals are Avgas, 100 leaded.
Its the lack of lead that causes most of the problems with aircraft engines.
Some of the classic car guys go to the local airfields to buy avgas for their engines.
But at around £1.80ltr it ain't cheep.

My instructor (the owner of the c-175) flew across Lake Erie to London, had vapor lock along the way.
No more autogas for him, nor me.
Used to be the hotrod people could buy 100ll at the local airport, our EPA (much like our IRS) has deemed it illegal.

 

[Dozzer]

My instructor (the owner of the c-175) flew across Lake Erie to London, had vapor lock along the way.
No more autogas for him, nor me.
Used to be the hotrod people could buy 100ll at the local airport, our EPA (much like our IRS) has deemed it illegal.

Its not the lack of lead but the increase in Benzene that causes vapour lock at altitude, it has a higher vapour pressure = becomes a gas as pressure is reduced, well before most petrol hydrocarbons.
And our goverment takes a very dim view on use of leaded petrol in cars, but should people buy some for their aircraft but get the jerry cans mixed up!!!

 

[Erie Fred]

Its not the lack of lead but the increase in Benzene that causes vapour lock at altitude, it has a higher vapour pressure = becomes a gas as pressure is reduced, well before most petrol hydrocarbons.

I didn't say the lack of lead caused the vaporlock.

Over here, aviation gas is a tightly controlled recipe, it is not changed (the recipe)
by the weather.

Autogas, there is winter & summer recipes.
Autogas in general (any recipe) the vapor pressure is not tightly controlled like avgas is.

BTW I would up the franklin (in the c-175) and as we rotated (very short field so seconds to make the go/abort decision)
I caught the sound of a faint sputter, and shut it down.
Taxied back, opened the drain on the gascolator, and it sprayed out under pressure.