Instantly Burning Tungsten?

[Moose-LT]

Hey guys!

I will first say that i'm very new to TIG welding, and am trying my best to learn it. So far i've done about 10 hours and i'm starting to get the hang of it by following online tutorial, such as the one on here which has been an enormous help. When i got my welder (used) it came with a gas cylinder, which ran out the other day. I went to BOC and opened an account, and picked up a size-Y cylinder of ArgoShield Universal, following the recommendation of their staff.

The problem i now have is that the weldpool spits badly and my tungsten burns within seconds and it forms a flat "pad" on the tip of the tungsten and after about an inch of bead it no longer makes an arc. I'm using exactly the same piece of metal as i was before with my previous gas cylinder (Cleaned again prior to welding.) and my regulator is flowing at 7L/min. I'm not dipping the tungsten into the weldpool or anything like that, same technique and i haven't changed any settings on the welder either.

Could it be an issue with the gas (incorrectly filled cylinder?) or could it be something completely different that i've overlooked?

Many thanks in advance,
-Moose.

 

[the snooper]

from the boc site

Applications and uses
■ Specially formulated for MIG welding

 

[Garreth]

I think you have MIG gas mate.

I think the BOC gas you want is pure shield argon, pure argon and what you have is a mixed gas for MIG.

if you have a look on the BOC website you'll find all the details.

 

[graffian]

Hey guys!

picked up a size-Y cylinder of ArgoShield Universal, following the recommendation of their staff.

Take the gas back and kick the bloke[who recommended it] in the bollock.
It's Pureshield argon you want.
Never tried it but can imagine the CO2 isn't good for tungstens.

 

[Moose-LT]

Damnit! I told them i wanted TIG gas!

Thank you for confirming that guys. I had a slight feeling it may've been MIG gas, but i don't know enough about this stuff to be sure on my own!

I'll have to make another trip there on Monday and see if they will exchange it for me.

Do you only use argon for TIG welding, or are there other gases that are used for different materials? I'm mostly going to be welding 3-6mm mild steel, but would like to also do some stainless and aluminium.

Thank you,
-Moose.

 

[Seano]

Hey guys I went to BOC and opened an account, and picked up a size-Y cylinder of ArgoShield Universal,

Could it be an issue with the gas (incorrectly filled cylinder?) or could it be something completely different that i've overlooked?

Many thanks in advance,
-Moose.

You have it almost right Moose ....they have given you the WRONG gas, you should have been given ARGON 100%, if you try to use anything else with a tig welder all you will succeed in doing is.....melting your tungsten....... hth.

Sean

 

[Moose-LT]

You have it almost right Moose ....they have given you the WRONG gas, you should have been given ARGON 100%, if you try to use anything else with a tig welder all you will succeed in doing is.....melting your tungsten....... hth.

Sean

Thank you, Sean. Glad you guys have pointed me in the right direction and now i know what to get when i go back on Monday.

Does anyone know if BOC will just exchange this for the correct gas (and i probably pay the price difference?) or am i going to be stuck paying for a large cylinder of gas i can't use? (Don't have a MIG welder.) I've removed the protecting/tamperproof plastic cap. Don't want to cause an issue with BOC, but not happy that i've now lost my two days off work that i could be using to learn due to being supplied the wrong gas when i told them what welding i was doing.

I suppose i'm partly to fault for not actually knowing what gas i should be using.

 

[Country Joe]

No. Not your fault. I'd be expecting them to waive the "handling charge", too - as you went in to their depot to pick up the gas yourself.

I had the same thing a few years back with a depot round here that insisted I needed pure argon for mig, when I really wanted Argoshield. Wouldn't believe that I knew what I wanted at all. After 10-15 minutes of arguing, I was ready to leave, and go to another BOC agent, when the bloke decided to let me have the mig gas after all - still seemed dead stroppy about it, though!
Also, you're paying for the tungstens which, all the while are being contaminated by the wrong gas, not to mention the 2 days off!

Oh yes, welcome to the Forum, too!
All the Best,
CJ

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

Also don't let them get confused with High purity Argon either thats more expensive.

 

[Robotstar5]

Print some of the replies to this thread and take them with you? also there is probably some info on correct gases in the tutorial also worth printing.
If they have welding supplies, ask them for some replacement tungstens

 

[Drains]

You shouldn't pay anything for a replacement. You asked them for Tig gas, they gave you something else, muppets.

 

[Seano]

I suppose all of these views hinge on what you actually asked BOC for....? if you asked for gas for a tig welder, then deffo their problem, and don't let them tell you otherwise no matter how much they argue, unfortunately for you to add insult to injury it is going to cost you more money, Argon is much more expensive than Argoshield, both to rent and refill, sorry to give you the bad word......

 

[Wozzaaah]

following the recommendation of their staff.

Complain...loudly!

 

[langy]

This happens a lot and you need to ask for the gas by its correct name I'm afraid, the people working at BOC are just not welders im afraid.

 

[chunkolini]

I spent two years struggling with my Tig welder using the wrong gas.
I assumed I could do Mig and Tig with the same gas mix. Wrong!!!
Go back and kick up a fuss.

 

[Ragnarok]

unfortunately for you to add insult to injury it is going to cost you more money, Argon is much more expensive than Argoshield, both to rent and refill, sorry to give you the bad word......

rental price depends on cylinder not what it's filled with, the rental is the same for oxygen, argoshield mixes and pure shield, if they're in the same size cylinder ( Y ) the fill price is drastically different though haha....

 

[Moose-LT]

No. Not your fault. I'd be expecting them to waive the "handling charge", too - as you went in to their depot to pick up the gas yourself.

I had the same thing a few years back with a depot round here that insisted I needed pure argon for mig, when I really wanted Argoshield. Wouldn't believe that I knew what I wanted at all. After 10-15 minutes of arguing, I was ready to leave, and go to another BOC agent, when the bloke decided to let me have the mig gas after all - still seemed dead stroppy about it, though!
Also, you're paying for the tungstens which, all the while are being contaminated by the wrong gas, not to mention the 2 days off!

Oh yes, welcome to the Forum, too!
All the Best,
CJ

Thanks, CJ.

I went in and spoke to one guy there and asked him what gas i needed based on what i would be welding, TIG welding, 3-6mm mild steel, with the occasional bit of aluminium and stainless. Was told ArgoShield Universal for the steel, and pure argon for Aluminium.

Also don't let them get confused with High purity Argon either thats more expensive.

Ok. So i just want PureShield Argon?

Print some of the replies to this thread and take them with you? also there is probably some info on correct gases in the tutorial also worth printing.
If they have welding supplies, ask them for some replacement tungstens

I'm not even worried about the tungsten, it was only one and i only managed about 2" of bead before giving up. I just want the right gas so i can carry on trying to learn and make stuff!

You shouldn't pay anything for a replacement. You asked them for Tig gas, they gave you something else, muppets.

True, i'll see what they say.

I suppose all of these views hinge on what you actually asked BOC for....? if you asked for gas for a tig welder, then deffo their problem, and don't let them tell you otherwise no matter how much they argue, unfortunately for you to add insult to injury it is going to cost you more money, Argon is much more expensive than Argoshield, both to rent and refill, sorry to give you the bad word......

As above, i asked a member of their staff for advice on what gas i needed, and was told ArgoShield universal, so i then went to the counter and asked for that, based on what i'd just been told.

Complain...loudly!

Might have to!

This happens a lot and you need to ask for the gas by its correct name I'm afraid, the people working at BOC are just not welders im afraid.

Seems that may well be the problem in this case. Unfortunately i'm no welder either!

I spent two years struggling with my Tig welder using the wrong gas.
I assumed I could do Mig and Tig with the same gas mix. Wrong!!!
Go back and kick up a fuss.

I was lucky in that when i bought my welder the guy gave me a partially-filled cylinder to start out with, so no issues (aside from the beginner issues) until i ran out and got more gas.

rental price depends on cylinder not what it's filled with, the rental is the same for oxygen, argoshield mixes and pure shield, if they're in the same size cylinder ( Y ) the fill price is drastically different though haha....

Looking at the pricelist they gave me, the difference in price of the gas is about £20. No a big problem, i'm happy to pay £70 for a Y-size cylidner. Should last me a decent while.

 

[langy]

The Y bottle won't last as long as you think i'm afraid, Its a pain to move but the W bottle is the best value for money.

 

[Seano]

Thanks, CJ.

I went in and spoke to one guy there and asked him what gas i needed based on what i would be welding, TIG welding, 3-6mm mild steel, with the occasional bit of aluminium and stainless. Was told ArgoShield Universal for the steel, and pure argon for Aluminium.



Ok. So i just want PureShield Argon?



I'm not even worried about the tungsten, it was only one and i only managed about 2" of bead before giving up. I just want the right gas so i can carry on trying to learn and make stuff!



True, i'll see what they say.



As above, i asked a member of their staff for advice on what gas i needed, and was told ArgoShield universal, so i then went to the counter and asked for that, based on what i'd just been told.



Might have to!



Seems that may well be the problem in this case. Unfortunately i'm no welder either!



I was lucky in that when i bought my welder the guy gave me a partially-filled cylinder to start out with, so no issues (aside from the beginner issues) until i ran out and got more gas.



Looking at the pricelist they gave me, the difference in price of the gas is about £20. No a big problem, i'm happy to pay £70 for a Y-size cylidner. Should last me a decent while.

Again not wanting to give you the bad news but the tig process is notoriously gas thirsty, especially when using a gas lens setup but a y size will last you a damn sight longer than those throw away things.

 

[Ragnarok]

Again not wanting to give you the bad news but the tig process is notoriously gas thirsty, but a y size will last you a damn sight longer than those throw away things.

yeah you could get through a Y in a few weeks of practicing easily if you are new to tig and want to get a decent amount of time practicing.