I don't need a smart thermostat

[Wildefalcon]

I need advice on smart programmers, does anyone have any experience with these systems?


The house has an old, reliable, fixable gas combi-boiler, a Patterson, probably, that's great, it just works, no fancy stuff, on when the programmer says, and off when not. No water tank. No zones, one thermostat.

Simple. So I like it.

The programmer was designed by a sadist. An evil sadist, with a bad hangover, going through a messy and expensive divorce.

It's grey letters on gray background, tiny display, misaligned to the printing on the casing. Truly an exemplar of the heating control and devices engineering art. I hate it.

And I want to replace it with a smart programmer, so I can do all the smart stuff, like switch it on when I'm half an hour down the road, and all that whizzy Alexa stuff.

I've a thermostat, it's wired into the kitchen, and it's fine, simple thing, with a 3 core wire to the evil programmer. I like the thermostat. It's got one knob, no buttons, doesn't beep, no display.

There's decent wi-fi in the boiler room, the garage, but that's over power line, because the walls in the house are thick, stone, and good at blocking signals.

Is there a smart programmer that will talk to my dumb thermostat, that will walk to Alexa over wi-fi?

Most of the systems seem to need their own hub, and extenders for their signal and all sorts. I'd really, really not.

My current thinking is to get a smart plug and wire the programmer into it, and leave it on continuous. Use Alexa as a programmer.

But there must be a better way.

Is there?

 

[gaz1]

your stat is just an on / off switch so follow the wiring diagrams to wire it in

 

[Wildefalcon]

It's wired in already, thanks, and working very well as a stat.

I want to replace the programmer with something that's easier to use, doesn't require a magnifying glass and flood light to read and can be managed remotely.

 

[daleyd]

We’ve got a Nest - it’s got a box of tricks that you wire to the boiler that has a relay in it that turns it on and off - needs a power supply and 2 wires going to the boiler, I guess in place of the existing programmer wires on yours.

It’s also got the wireless display unit which you can stick in your living room. App from phone to turn it on/off and you can set the program from it. Also uses location stuff to turn it off when you are out if you want.

 

[Wildefalcon]

I think I might to go that route, but it's more complex than I want, and I worry that the stat won't be able to talk to the box by the boiler, with a metre of stone in the way.

 

[carbon]

I’m using a raspberry pi running home assistant for my heating controller and controlling a few lights. I can turn the heating on remotely. There is also Alexa integration but I haven’t looked at that

https://www.home-assistant.io/

 

[gaz1]

It's wired in already, thanks, and working very well as a stat.

I want to replace the programmer with something that's easier to use, doesn't require a magnifying glass and flood light to read and can be managed remotely.

but your new unit will want wiring in

 

[carbon]

Should have said I’m using a sonoff basic flashed with tasmota to replace the timer

 

[Wildefalcon]

I think I'll put one of these on the line in between the boiler and the evil programmer. Set the evil programmer to continuous and use this to do the schedule and remote on functions.


Alexa wi-fi lighting control module

 

[Wildefalcon]

but your new unit will want wiring in

I know. But I don't want to replace the thermostat, just eliminate/bypass the evil programmer, which is probably on a standard back plate.

 

[Wildefalcon]

Should have said I’m using a sonoff basic flashed with tasmota to replace the timer

I think that's similar to what I'm looking at, but plumbed into Alexa directly.

For £10 I think it's worth trying out. I'll have to get a fire rated plastic enclosure, but other than that, and a few hours of messing about, it's an elegant cheap solution, that should be wife friendly.

 

[MattF]

The programmer was designed by a sadist. An evil sadist, with a bad hangover, going through a messy and expensive divorce.

Or possibly just a woman?

 

[Screwdriver]

I think I might to go that route, but it's more complex than I want, and I worry that the stat won't be able to talk to the box by the boiler, with a metre of stone in the way.

It really depends on the precise model of your boiler and sometimes, which variant you might have. Your thermostat is a dumb switch, When the temperature is low, the boiler comes on, when it's hot enough at the sensor, the boiler switches off.

A "smart" setup not only switches the boiler on and off, it can also very the temperature of the hot water circulating. This is what pays dividends in efficiency. You really need to talk to the manufacturer and find out exactly what type and version of control board your particular boiler has fitted.

 

[Wildefalcon]

My boiler is really simple. It comes on, it goes off. It heats radiators, it heats water in taps. It's perfect. My service engineer says it's a joy to fix, everything is modular, not integrated, so he can get bits cheap.

And I like it that way.

If the aim was to reduce cost I'd put the effort into insulation, which I will, once I've a few (cough) projects out of the way.

My aim is having the heating easier to control, that's all.

 

[Screwdriver]

That's what I ended up doing when I was faced with a similar situation some time ago. Apparently my unit (Vaillant EcoTec) is able to have a smart control system board retro fitted but looked like a lot of effort for a minor gain. I just fixed the existing thermostatic control unit which had a duff capacitor and some dry joints in the soldering.

 

[carbon]

My aim is having the heating easier to control, that's all.

That’s what I wanted, as some days I can start early and the timer was set to start the heating after I would have left the house. I have a set time for the heating on in the morning and I also have an earlier timer that can be easily activated from either my phone or from a web browser. If I’ve left before the set time then the heating won’t come on as it checks to see if my phone is connected to my home network.

 

[badabec]

How often do you need to fiddle with the evil programmer? I never touch ours, hot water twice on and twice off, heating once on and once off. It stays like that all year. Fine tuning is done with the thermostat.
I can imagine if we had an app or Alexa controlled heating, it would go on, off, on, off, on, off all day. I already have to watch TV in shorts and T shirt whilst my wife is complaining that she is cold.

 

[skotl]

It's pretty unlikely, to be honest, that your thermostat will work with a smart controller. Most come with their own "thermostat", where the temp sensor is only part of the function - they also act as the main controller for the device.

We had a tado setup, which I liked but returned because of their ridiculous ongoing rental costs.
We now have a Hive, which is great. Inexpensive (ish) and it's a one off purchase: Amazon link - just noticed that it's currently £50 off so £129...


This is the thermostat - it will sit in the socket left behind by your existing thermostat and is battery powered:

(It goes dark after a few seconds so you don't have all the Blinkenlights)

 

[carbon]

@Dev is also doing something similar except he’s kept the original control in place and used a smart switch in parallel to add remote control of the heating. https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/smart-dimmers-plugs.105002/
From about post 14 onwards

 

[Wildefalcon]

@Dev is also doing something similar except he’s kept the original control in place and used a smart switch in parallel to add remote control of the heating. https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/smart-dimmers-plugs.105002/
From about post 14 onwards

Thank you, that's really helpful. It looks like @Dev was able to run the two in parallel, which surprises me, as I'd have thought that having the controller on and the wi-fi module off would mean AC at the output from the wi-fi module, and that would be bad for the wi-fi module. And vise versa.

But if it works, that would be excellent.

Failing that, having the wi-fi inline with the the output from controller would be fine.