How much are garages charging?

[Ubique]

I took "the decision" around 2007/8 ish - I was not going to get involved with mapping and deleting. It was in its infancy then....

It may of cost me some money... But to be honest - I get out of bed in the mornings to fix things - not spend all day hiding faults.

What really, really, gets my goat about it is when traders (not auth. dealers) have stuff 'mapped out' either proactively to save them repair costs post sale, or worse, have existing defects mapped out pre-sale. Regardless of any environmental impact - which would be another discussion thread but likely only last a single number of posts, it's not only illegal but potentially leaving the buyer with a hidden repair cost if their vehicle manufacturer implements a recall for software update to the ECM.

If a car salesman said it was raining, I'd look out of the window to check, I've been in a 'supporting trade' long enough to never, ever, believe a word they say.

 

[premmington]

What really, really, gets my goat about it is when traders (not auth. dealers) have stuff 'mapped out' either proactively to save them repair costs post sale, or worse, have existing defects mapped out pre-sale. Regardless of any environmental impact - which would be another discussion thread but likely only last a single number of posts, it's not only illegal but potentially leaving the buyer with a hidden repair cost if their vehicle manufacturer implements a recall for software update to the ECM.

If a car salesman said it was raining, I'd look out of the window to check, I've been in a 'supporting trade' long enough to never, ever, believe a word they say.

This is going on all the while - everywhere. When I am out roadtesting - I see the same "mobile vans" - the eastern european & asian mappers - in the same big car supermarkets - all the while. It is happening in every town and city across the country - it just is...

All the big hype about performance maps as well - some of these make diagnosing simple faults nearly impossible.

Wonder why your local garage struggling to diagnose your poorly running car - at times they would be better off with a crystal ball than an expensive scanner. Reason being all the data they reading been deleted or the parameters altered to hide faults improve performance.

 

[premmington]

I serviced a 4.5yr old Audi Monday - owner reported car was very good on Adblue - never used any - he has never topped it up in a whole year of ownership and 30.000miles (you know what has been done to that car prepurchase)

 

[premmington]

Would not supprise me if the insurers at claim time don't start pluging them in at assessment.

Check the CVN - and then void your insurance if mapped.

I am sure they would save themselves a fortune if they did....

 

[Ubique]

Well, the vehicles are outside of type approval - sometimes even with the 'wrong' wheels or tyres on, so should be insured as modified vehicles. Quite how you'd insure an EU6+ vehicle as an EU2 or 3 is something I think I'd enjoy reading about....
Rumour has it that the proposed changes to MoT's to better manage BEV's will have changes 'rolled in' to electronically check emissions systems. I have no details beyond a conversation with a VOSA bod, I'm not a tester but you can assume there will be ££££'s of additional mandatory equipment involved....

 

[m_c]

Would not supprise me if the insurers at claim time don't start pluging them in at assessment.

Check the CVN - and then void your insurance if mapped.

I am sure they would save themselves a fortune if they did....

They already do, if they think the cost will justify any savings.

I done a mapping course many years ago, and as well as doing remaps, the company also done independent investigations for insurance and police.

 

[premmington]

Well, the vehicles are outside of type approval - sometimes even with the 'wrong' wheels or tyres on, so should be insured as modified vehicles. Quite how you'd insure an EU6+ vehicle as an EU2 or 3 is something I think I'd enjoy reading about....
Rumour has it that the proposed changes to MoT's to better manage BEV's will have changes 'rolled in' to electronically check emissions systems. I have no details beyond a conversation with a VOSA bod, I'm not a tester but you can assume there will be ££££'s of additional mandatory equipment involved....

I have heard talk of this - but it is only "talk" - VOSA is slow to move on anything - quick to back down if it is difficult to implement and what is proposed - looks hard/nasty/expensive. So doubt it will ever land....

NOX fitler bag testing for emissions - had been bandied about for how long now...?

Government uses RFL as the tool of choice - not MOT testing...

And I never get how a PHEV is a "clean vehicle" for MOT testing and does not have emissions tested - BEV yes - PHEV no.

I think the reason is - no testers can get the petrol engines to start on demand for testing in an MOT bay (I kid you not...!)

 

[Ubique]

Laugh for the last line, a 'FFS' is needed for the rest.

 

[premmington]

Laugh for the last line, a 'FFS' is needed for the rest.

I honestly believe that is the reason - I really do mate...


I had a Toyota PHEV give me a non start/no movement the other day - AUX battery flat - gave it battery support engine started - customer refused a new AUX battery - only way I could keep petrol engine running was - leave it in gear and hold brakes down to get some charge into Aux battery for the idiots to collect it and take it away...

 

[Ubique]

With a lot of hybrids, you either release the bonnet latch or just press the brake and throttle to kickdown in park and with the seatbelt unlatched - some M-B's have a 'charge' mode on the 'driving mode' dial, that said, the last place I was at, the dedicated (i.e. that's all he could do) tester was always asking 'how do I....'

 

[bricol]

120 quid for an hour long four wheel alignment to my settings on my Lancia integrale in a garage in an expensive little village 20 mins away from me.

On the face of it, an "ouch" price - but he let me run up the road in it before paying - and within 50 yds I could tell it was much better than the 60 quid I paid two weeks ago in a garage 10 mins in the other direction. Time will tell, but from his initial readings, that he came to show me before working on it, it was well out from what the previous place equipment said it was - and probably explains why the rear of the car has been unusually mobile under braking the last two weeks - having owned an integrale for over 30 yrs now, I know how it behaves, and it wasn't right.

First garage I've been in in 30 yrs where I wasn't allowed to hover near my car, only keep it in sight from reception. I did tell him it was LHD . . . and he still went for the passenger door Their alignment kit did worry me a little, as it did look pretty old, and I couldn't see how it was measuring camber, but he came back to check with me what it was set at, and how to adjust it to what I wanted, so it obviously did.

Every ramp and work space used, one car out, another in, even at 8.30 this morning. Proper job cards too, with mechanics clocking on the card - not seen that before in the small place I use for MOTs. And from the sound of conversations with customers dropping cars off, from 20 yr old BMWs to pretty new Porsche SUV thingies, a place where customers have been coming back to for a very long time, so they must be doing something right.

Previous place has an all singing all dancing bit of kit, and the technician who worked on my Challenger two years ago seemed to know what he was doing with it. The guy two weeks ago either didn't, or the system is damage or out of calibration.

 

[charlysays]

That sounds fantastic
Have you a thread on here about it?

It's a very comfy car!
No thread on here but I will make one. I can't take credit for the conversion - i very luckily bought it converted and I'm mostly fettling it although the dmf swap will be a big upgrade. I plan on a white paint job at some point but the plan is to get it fully fettled over the winter so I can do a load of welding on my Merc at a more leisurely pace than "Christ that's a lot of holes which I have to get welded up by Sunday night" lol.
That's the plan with this car- use it regularly but use it solidly for a month or two at a time to take the heat off my c250 TD so I can keep up with the rust.

Here's the original build thread.

https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/183354/scimitar-se6-diesel-project-progress

 

[Bobupndown]

It's a very comfy car!
No thread on here but I will make one. I can't take credit for the conversion - i very luckily bought it converted and I'm mostly fettling it although the dmf swap will be a big upgrade. I plan on a white paint job at some point but the plan is to get it fully fettled over the winter so I can do a load of welding on my Merc at a more leisurely pace than "Christ that's a lot of holes which I have to get welded up by Sunday night" lol.
That's the plan with this car- use it regularly but use it solidly for a month or two at a time to take the heat off my c250 TD so I can keep up with the rust.

Here's the original build thread.

https://forum.retro-rides.org/thread/183354/scimitar-se6-diesel-project-progress

Interesting, unfortunately the photos aren't displaying for me.

 

[Bobupndown]

This is going on all the while - everywhere. When I am out roadtesting - I see the same "mobile vans" - the eastern european & asian mappers - in the same big car supermarkets - all the while. It is happening in every town and city across the country - it just is...

All the big hype about performance maps as well - some of these make diagnosing simple faults nearly impossible.

Wonder why your local garage struggling to diagnose your poorly running car - at times they would be better off with a crystal ball than an expensive scanner. Reason being all the data they reading been deleted or the parameters altered to hide faults improve performance.

Had my Freelander in for an egr fault last year with an independent specialist, was going to discuss options with them, blanking off, mapping out, replacement etc but they told me straight off they don't work on cars with such modifications and won't do this type of work. Very conscientious, and also very expensive fitting new egr and egr cooler!

 

[premmington]

Had my Freelander in for an egr fault last year with an independent specialist, was going to discuss options with them, blanking off, mapping out, replacement etc but they told me straight off they don't work on cars with such modifications and won't do this type of work. Very conscientious, and also very expensive fitting new egr and egr cooler!

Thats the problem - to fix the fault properly - costs good money. It is always cheaper to hide faults - I get it - and when you got a low value end of life car - who does wanna spend bucket load of money on it....

 

[Bobupndown]

Thats the problem - to fix the fault properly - costs good money. It is always cheaper to hide faults - I get it - and when you got a low value end of life car - who does wanna spend bucket load of money on it....

How rude! My Freelander 2 is in its prime

 

[premmington]

How rude! My Freelander 2 is in its prime

I not anti - Freelander2 at all mate...

That maybe the last of the Land Rover products I would buy for myself.

Anything later or more complex - you on for a hiding to hell for sure...

 

[Bobupndown]

I not anti - Freelander2 at all mate...

That maybe the last of the Land Rover products I would buy for myself.

Anything later or more complex - you on for a hiding to hell for sure...

Totally with you there, I won't be buying any more modern LR product which is a real shame because I love the brand but the reliability nowadays is shocking.
The next landrover I buy will be significantly older and will have leaf springs.

 

[Ubique]

I not anti - Freelander2 at all mate...

That maybe the last of the Land Rover products I would buy for myself.

Anything later or more complex - you on for a hiding to hell for sure...

Three of the techs I work with own and run FL2's as their daily car.... I had one a few years ago - loved it, especially after putting Disco4 electric front seats in it...

 

[keithski122]

This is the first I've heard of mapping out faults, heard of remapping for performance, mind you been out of it for a while now.