How About A Video of Migweld 1mm Gal ?

[abrogard]

Could the magician and ace welder who provided those wonderful videos on "how to weld thin metal' and "how to weld with fluxcored wire" please add a video on how to weld 1mm (i.e. 1/32") galvanised steel?

Because it is a great big problem for me.

I've even got people telling me it can't be done - take a quick scan through this thread if you're interested:
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f160/there-any-aids-seeing-114591/

Currently I'm trying to teach myself to Mig weld with the 130 amp cheap Chinese welder I've got.

I'm using 0.8mm flux cored wire on 1/32" (1mm) galvanised steel.

This steel comes in 1.5" x 1" x 1/32" lengths, known as 'fence rail' where I buy it. I get it because it is cheap, strong, durable, useful.

But it is a ****** for a novice like me to weld.

And when I looked for help I just got told I shouldn't be trying: it is not possible (see the aforementioned link).


The aim of the whole thing is to be able to weld car panels for my vintage car. So maybe I shouldn't be practicing on this gal stuff but should be practicing on car steel. Okay. Maybe. If that's what the guy who did those videos and his friends and peers on this forum tell me then that's what I'll do - give up on the 1mm gal.

But first I'll ask. What do you guys think about my chances? Would the miracle welder put up a video of how to do it?

regards,

ab

 

[Shox Dr]

It can be done, however the galv will spit worse than a snake with a lisp. Can you not grind off the galv, it would make life a lot easier

 

[wyn]

That sounds really tricky.
As Shox Dr said, the galv will be chucking off loads of fumes. The fluxcord wire will produce a similar amount of fumes/smoke.
If you grind off the galv some of the steel is likely to be removed as well, leaving you with something under 1mm, which the fluxcore wire is likely to burn holes straight through.
If your welder can run with gas and a solid wire that would make it easier.

 

[mike os]

You also need proper respirtory protection, the fumes of galv are toxic

better to get gas, preferably "argoshield" and learn to mig with it rather than struggling with a cheap welder, gasless and thin sheet.... Just making it harder for yourself

 

[abrogard]

So you're all basically saying 'don't do it'.

I grind the galv off with a power drill and sanding disk - this doesn't remove much metal, but some, I guess.

And this is rectangular hollow section - so I'm able to only grind the outside, the inside remains galvanised and turns into white powdery flakes during welding.

I googled zinc fever and such pretty extensively a while back there and it seems that

1. Basically zinc and zinc oxide (which it rapidly becomes)are harmless, theoretically, to humans.

2. Nevertheless some humans are affected, some very badly, with a whole range of symptoms. Some, not all, differing symptoms for different sufferers.

Myself I experience no symptoms whatever. But I keep out of the plume, don't do much work at a time (half an hour, maybe, for the whole day), and weld in a large shed and near the doorway where there's air movement.

I'm very slow to change my mind once I've set out to do something but I'm coming to realise here maybe I'm making a fool of myself.

Stick welding would do an easier quicker job on this stuff.

This stuff is not really practice for car panels.

This stuff is not really even proper practice for MIG welding, it seems, being exceptionally difficult to where even experts avoid it.

So, yes, perhaps, it certainly begins to look like it, I should leave the stuff alone for MIG and if I want to keep working with it use stick to weld it.

 

[outofthefire]

I'd leave it alone full stop, buy or scrounge plain mild steel. I dont know where you've got your info but the fumes aren't just a bit poisonous they can and have killed, at the least they can have serious long term effects if you get enough into your lungs. From what I saw you'd done on the other site you'd be better drilling and bolting them bits together rather than trying to weld them.

 

[BChild]

I've only welded once with flux cored wire (ran out of normal wire or gas - can't remember which - either way I had a small roll of flux core that came with the welder so used it)

I cannot concieve how anyone could possibly get a good video of a welding process with that stuff - I have a double tandem garage and once I'd finished a run of about 12 inches of weld (top and bottom of a chassis/floor pan patch so didn't need to be pretty just functional) I had to open the door and windows and it took 20 mins before I could see clearly in the garage.

Dreadfull stuff and even if I had to do a job that didn't require it to look even remotely good cosmetically in a howling gale outside with no chance of a wind break I think I'd still avoid the stuff

JM2pW

 

[abrogard]

Well my info comes from googling around. Here's a sample, the first one I found in a google I just did for 'zinc fume' : http://www.periodictable.com/ZincSafety.html

Videos of Mig fluxcore welding? Well the one at the front of the Mig Welding section of this site is an excellent example.

What I've done here is ask and hope that guy will provide another one, this time of galvanised thin sheet.

Bolting together doesn't work well. Unless you make sleeves or plates to join with you've got awkward joins of two bars crossing each other, very yucky. And on big stuff at least bolts suffer from movement. They allow movement in a joint. Bolts rarely (or never?) fitting the bolthole precisely.

So even if you improved the design by using plates and sleeves you'd possibly still finish up with a rickety build.

Screws would be more like it. Tek screws. This will leave you with big ugly, snagging bolt heads sticking out.

So use another material. Well, yes, that's probably what I should do.

But while I'm here with this stuff there's no harm and much interest and possibly value in exploring the subject in a little depth, finding out what there is to be known about it. Finding out if it really can be done or not. Remember, the wire vendor swears it can.

I'd add a pic of one of the tables I've been making while struggling with this task.

 

[Shox Dr]

The link you posted is for casting in Zinc. Plain and simple welding zinc metals/alloys and galvanised metals is not to be done without the correct PPE. I've had Galv flue the day after and its not nice, I hope it didn't do any lasting damage

 

[abrogard]

The link mentions welding, too:

"Welding galvanized steel generates zinc fumes because welding happens at very, very high temperatures: The zinc plating for an inch or so in every direction from the weld is burned off in billowing white clouds of zinc oxide. Anyone who has learned to weld will have been warned many times to wear a special mask when welding galvanized steel, and that's a good idea. I use one always when welding galvanized plate."

and all in all it can be seen to be handling the general question of the healthiness or otherwise of zinc fumes.

I didn't bother to find another example because this one seemed to me to be illustrative of the general tenor of them all.

There's tons of material out there and nearly all of it suggests more or less strongly that zinc fumes be avoided totally. And I've got no argument with that at all. None.

But I did see pages that pointed out that the zinc simply gets converted to zinc oxide which is the white stuff you put on your nose and lips to prevent sunburn. It is non toxic.

It is also pointed out that there's trace metals possibly present here or there - perhaps in the material, perhaps in the welding rod/wire. Manganese has been a component of welding rod for years and manganese IS highly toxic without doubt. It is implicated in the early onset of Parkinson's disease.

10% of welders in one study developing Parkinson's where in the general population it would have been only 1%.


Generally zinc fumes appear to be recognised as causing short term discomfort which is quickly recovered from and which is, generally, proportionate to the amount of exposure. I say 'generally' because it is often quoted that welders experience immediate discomfort upon returning to galv welding after a layoff. As though they've been sensitised or something.

And 'allergic' reaction is a term sometimes used.

So, for my own case, as I've said, I'm happy to continue at the level I'm doing it and in the way I'm doing it because I don't appear to have any allergy and in fact don't appear to suffer any effects at all.

BUT: this is not to say I'd claim it was harmless. Nor would I encourage anyone else to do it. Nor do I intend to continue for ever.

I'll just kinda 'pin down' this thing. Can I do a better job of welding (mig welding) this stuff than I'm doing now, or not? Can anyone?

And once I've satisfied myself as to that I'll mainly leave it alone. Move onto mild steel and practice up for doing car panels. Returning to this stuff only for a few short minutes when for some reason I have a little job to do with it.

What I really thought would happen was that the guy who provided those two excellent videos would immediately provide one for galv stuff or point me to one....

That hasn't happened.. but maybe still.....

 

[mike os]

Dont think it likely as the people who made the video's are pro's & know the real health risks