hidden terms?jasic?

[Jim Davey]

Luck of the draw really, it costs £30 (2x £15+vat) over two years to service a Pico 162 which sells for about £385+vat. For the more expensive and complicated machines, MIGS TIGS etc its £70 over two years but it protects the value of a machine that could be more than 10k. I'd say it's definitely worth the warranty for the handful who have elected not to bother and had to shell out.
I'd certainly go for the service myself for the peace of mind but you can't convince everyone it's the sensible choice and if they are careful and have a bit of luck they might never need it and save a few pounds.

 

[Bill Edwards]

Tbh I think the service prices you speak of seem reasonable relative to the value of the machines.

What I was wondering, if a firm bought say 50 units then there wouldn't be that much luck going on overall - they'd have several that cost a fortune in repairs, several that never went wrong and all the inbetween/average ones. I wonder (if you're dealing with such large quantities) whether as an average extended warranties pay?
No question that for small numbers it's purely down to luck, buying say three machines each one could go bang big time or each one may never falter so it's not enough to work out whether warranties pay on average. Relative probability I think it's called...

 

[Barlidge]

Its probably fair to say the manufacturers/suppliers have done their sums and probably wouldn't offer the extended warranties if they were losing money 'on average'

 

[Bill Edwards]

That's what I would think. But, I have also wondered if it's done at more or less cost price in order to a service/compete with another brand which has extended warranty available.

 

[hotrodder]

Personally i'd say it's better value than most extended warranties insurance policies but the theory is much the same as anything from TV's/computers/white goods to a welder follows a bell curve... those that don't die quickly due to a manufacturing/component fault generally survive pretty well until they're old enough to start popping from lack of care/servicing whether it's computer fans clogged up with dust and crumbs, washing machines full of lint & scale or welders full of metallic dust etc

i recon some of the proper fandango coolant for some machenes may be the same as that evans waterless coolant....... one welder rather expensive welder i use occasionaly uses it, but the proper stuff is about the same price so dont take the chance on that one, especaly as it's cooling the power source itself as well

Evans waterless coolant is basically just neat glycols* plus whatever corrosion inhibitors they add. It's pretty much the dictionary definition of snake oil... thermal conductivity & specific heat capacity of glycols are about half that of water and it's a chunk more viscous too hence mixing it with water to fix water's shortcomings; freezing point not low enough for some environments and stuff will grow in it given the chance

* Evans NPG+ is a min of 69% ethylene glycol with the remainder being mostly propylene glycol IIRC

 

[dannyp]

ummm maybe not then, the coolant dosent pour like neat antifreeze might have to have to dig the drum out and have a read to satisfy my curiosity now

 

[hotrodder]

Got me curious too. IIRC Kemppi often recommend the same as Jim (isopropyl + deionised water), my Lincoln specs upto 30% pure ethylene glycol in deionised water and Miller recommend two different coolants https://www.millerwelds.com/resources/safety-precautions/sds-sheets which only appear to differ with regards to how much ethylene glycol is in them

 

[Chris Stevens]

Got me curious too. IIRC Kemppi often recommend the same as Jim (isopropyl + deionised water), my Lincoln specs upto 30% pure ethylene glycol in deionised water and Miller recommend two different coolants https://www.millerwelds.com/resources/safety-precautions/sds-sheets which only appear to differ with regards to how much ethylene glycol is in them

What percentage of alcohol to water? Is the alcohol easy to find on Ebay? Need to change coolant on my machines, and as no need for anti freeze that seems the best way to go.

 

[HughF]

What percentage of alcohol to water? Is the alcohol easy to find on Ebay? Need to change coolant on my machines, and as no need for anti freeze that seems the best way to go.

 

[Chris Stevens]

Thanks.............any idea what percentage?

 

[Jim Davey]

Chris, it's about £25 for 9 litres of the readymade stuff. By the time you've paid carriage on your eBay alcohol and bought the deionised water I think you'll not see much of a saving.

 

[hotrodder]

What percentage of alcohol to water? Is the alcohol easy to find on Ebay? Need to change coolant on my machines, and as no need for anti freeze that seems the best way to go.

I know their manuals are painful to read but if i'm remembering correctly that's where i would of found it. I might be making it up and either way i can't remember a mix ratio... i'd have thought ~ 10% IPA should be enough to stop stuff growing in it and it'd also lower the freezing point to about -4°C. Stronger mixes would lower the flash point, somewhere on the engineering toolbox site are charts for both freezing and flash points for various mixes of IPA. Same site also has data for different glycol mixes too. If you want to mix your own coolant for whatever reason you can get pure mono ethylene glycol (or propylene glycol) from the many of the same places as IPA and Hellfrauds usually sell DI water for ~ £4/gallon

 

[Chris Stevens]

Thanks. I got DI water already, and will get some IPA and change coolant in both machines. Is IPA essentially ethanol I wonder? If so would be useful for testing grp laminates for corrosion resistance.

 

[hotrodder]

Nope

 

[ukracer]

Deionised water and alcohol is what most recommend, the alcohol reduces the freezing point and keeps bacterial and mould growth down and it's safe with most torch hoses and pump seals.

Where do you buy the alcohol from .....please no replies that say pub, off-licence or supermarket.

 

[ukracer]

I know their manuals are painful to read but if i'm remembering correctly that's where i would of found it. I might be making it up and either way i can't remember a mix ratio... i'd have thought ~ 10% IPA should be enough to stop stuff growing in it and it'd also lower the freezing point to about -4°C. Stronger mixes would lower the flash point, somewhere on the engineering toolbox site are charts for both freezing and flash points for various mixes of IPA. Same site also has data for different glycol mixes too. If you want to mix your own coolant for whatever reason you can get pure mono ethylene glycol (or propylene glycol) from the many of the same places as IPA and Hellfrauds usually sell DI water for ~ £4/gallon

I hear all the comments about using car antifreeze but surely they are taking the proverbial with this price when the pure pharmaceutical grade is only around 20 quid on eBay..

 

[dannyp]

checked over our migs at work the other day. they all have long life car antifreeze in them. some of them have been on it for 5 yrs or so now. binzel / parweld coolers and mb 501 torches and yes its mixed with tap water