Help - massive inclusion on welds now

[eSCHEn]

I don't think you're anywhere near @JulieandTony but if you are then you're welcome to pop around and try things to discover the culprit. Should have enough bits to swap out until you find the issue(s).

 

[Paul.]

Gas spot test illustrated here,
https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/just-got-a-new-tig.27276/page-2#post-301703

 

[JulieandTony]

There's one on each piece.

 

[JulieandTony]

You can try the gas easily. Set post flow to 10 seconds, fire up with just enough heat to form a pool but don't let it burn through, don't move the torch. Release trigger and hold torch in the same position until post flow stops. Puddle and tungsten should have a silver color if gas is pure. If not you're either pulling in air or gas is bad.

If you are welding too hot you might draw up impurities from the back side if you're not purging or using a chill block to keep air away.

There is a gas test on each sample in the photos, it's clear the colour of the centre is wrong, even just a second or two and there are inclusions, can't show any video, but it's sparkling as it melts - exactly as one would expect from bad gas, or air/O2 getting in, but I cannot find any leaks!

Today I tried a third cylinder, just the same!

I also stripped the torch down, and blocked the end - see photo. Again no leak anywhere -right from the cylinder through reg, solenoid, front connection, dinse tee piece, to the end as shown in the photo, not only can't I hear any leaks, but soapy water doesn't bubble anywhere!

I left it for around 2 hours this morning, the gauge pressure remained the same (cylinder valve off), and the post-solinoid pipes etc appeared just as pressurised as before!

 

[JulieandTony]

I don't think you're anywhere near @JulieandTony but if you are then you're welcome to pop around and try things to discover the culprit. Should have enough bits to swap out until you find the issue(s).

Thanks, don't know where you are , I am in West Lothian - between Edinburgh and Glasgow, but would travel reasonable distance to get it sorted!

Thanks for the offer

 

[eSCHEn]

Thanks, don't know where you are , I am in West Lothian - between Edinburgh and Glasgow, but would travel reasonable distance to get it sorted!

Thanks for the offer

I'm in Dumfries so probably not a reasonable distance but you're very welcome if you think it is

I've spare torches, leads, hoses and a guaranteed working bottle of Ar (50 bar left so has done enough work to show gas is good). Not the same machine as yours but should be enough to diagnose.

 

[backpurge]

Doubt if it will be this but we seem to be running out of ideas, the clear braided hose fitted to most welding machines is actually permeable so after periods of inactivity (weekends etc) or in certain atmospheric conditions, moisture is absorbed through the hose wall, this takes hours to clear at normal flow rates. This is often seen when welding sensitive material such as titanium but is sometimes noted on less sensitive materials in extreme circumstances

 

[JulieandTony]

Sorted!!!

Time to fess up I guess , it turns out that all my cylinders had been re-filled , and all from the same source. (I thought one was still 1/2 empty - which had been working ok before.)

Having tried just about everything , I picked up a j of argon from sig (Dixons in Scotland) and it was perfectly fine!!

There is a place near Bathgate, who re-fills your cylinders - pick them up a couple of days after dropping them off.

No more I think!


Arrrrh!!!!

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Having tried just about everything , I picked up a j of argon from sig (Dixons in Scotland) and it was perfectly fine!!

Result!!! Pity you'll not have much hair left, assuming you had any in the first place.

 

[backpurge]

You can sleep tonight

 

[sjp001]

Glad you sorted it!

 

[minimutly]

It begs the question - how can we be sure that argon pure is actually pure? Should we do a spot test at each filling? Who's gas company was this?

 

[northwest]

Who's gas company was this?

This one:

There is a place near Bathgate, who re-fills your cylinders - pick them up a couple of days after dropping them off.

 

[slim_boy_fat]

This one:

Looks like we're the missing links?

 

[backpurge]

It begs the question - how can we be sure that argon pure is actually pure? Should we do a spot test at each filling? Who's gas company was this?

The gas will probably have been pure, the contamination is most likely to have come from the cylinders that were being filled, I have heard that some of the companies that re fill customer owned cylinders don’t always ensure the cylinders are contamination free before filling

 

[Jim Davey]

Has your collet deformed and partially blocked off the gas flow? Or is it fitted backwards? Both can cause significant issues.
Also it’s worth removing the covers and checking the gas line. I’ve had instances of them breaking loose from their fixings and coming into hot parts like resistors causing them to melt and leak.

EDIT: just seen you got to the bottom of the problem, well done.

 

[JulieandTony]

The gas will probably have been pure, the contamination is most likely to have come from the cylinders that were being filled, I have heard that some of the companies that re fill customer owned cylinders don’t always ensure the cylinders are contamination free before filling

All the cylinders have been used with no problems before, I doubt that there was anything wrong with the cylinders, even if there was, it would affect only the contaminated cylinder , the fact that all the cylinders have the same issue only after filling leads me to think he filled with the wrong gas eg mig argon instead of pure argon.

 

[tom 748]

much is the refill in bathgate

 

[JulieandTony]

It's around £30 for a <10 litre cylinder up to 200bar fill.

And best part of a few weeks of hassle trying to find the problem with your tig welder!

 

[backpurge]

All the cylinders have been used with no problems before, I doubt that there was anything wrong with the cylinders, even if there was, it would affect only the contaminated cylinder , the fact that all the cylinders have the same issue only after filling leads me to think he filled with the wrong gas eg mig argon instead of pure argon.

If your cylinder had been filled with a MIG mixture (Ar/CO2) I would have thought it would have destroyed your tungsten