Help identifying this hydraulic seal

[MetalMonkey]

Hydraulics is not really my forte, can anybody help?

The ram from my Clarke engine crane has decided to pack a sad - replacement seal kits are no longer available.
I know I should just buy a complete ram as they are not that expensive, but that seems pretty wasteful - and i suspect it probably won't be much better made than the one I have.
This one hasn't had much use, but in typical Chinese fashion was full of swarf and ****e, which probably contributed to its premature demise.

I've tried a seal specialist who told me "none of them were available and they must all be made special".
I've since managed to identify a source for most of them as they seem pretty standard.

However, this one has me stuck. It looked like a loaded U-cup to start with - but as I took it off it wasn’t. Are these a common style?

If not I was contemplating replacing it with a standard U-cup style.
The problem with that is the shaft measures 23mm. Cylinder bore is ~ 30mm. U cup seals seem to be 22x30 or 24x30.
I have found a 22.34 by 30 but only from china, could be made of PU or cheese, Who knows. I guess 22x30 would be better but not sure if it would "stretch" that much

This one doesn't actually seem that bad, but I figure I might as well replace it while I'm into it.

 

[RWD3M]

It might be worth contacting Clarke, they can probably help you out.

 

[MetalMonkey]

It might be worth contacting Clarke, they can probably help you out.

That was my first port of call - hence why I know they are no longer available!

 

[RWD3M]

That was my first port of call - hence why I know they are no longer available!

Oh Bu99er!

 

[Smallfry]

Any hydraulic ram specialist should be able to help with that. Its a single acting ram.

If you can accurately measure the cylinder bore and the seat diameter, might be able to get one on eBay. I don't think the thickness is important on that as there is no retainer ?

 

[Agroshield]

Sealey Ph10.V3-Rk - Repair Kit | CCW-Tools

Sealey Ph10.V3-Rk - Replacement Repair Kit for the Sealey Ph10 - Folding Engine Crane 1tonne Low Profile.Please see main product parts list below for details.

www.ccw-tools.com

https://www.sparepartsworld.co.uk/product/SPARE_53091 (Second part number 8 Draper 73764)

Draper Oil Retainer Dr-73764

Draper OIL RETAINER DR-737645010559737642PartNo-YEC1000-R08Draper 73764

www.tooltime.co.uk

 

[brightspark]

any decent bearing and belt supplier will have them i got a full set for a 60 year old epco jack from one that matched them up and was cheap enough . got them in 3 days

 

[zzr1200]

Looks like a "LW Piston Working L-shaped Bearing Ring" according to the Fluid Power catalog, which is backed up by an "O Ring" seal.

Page XII in the Seal Profile Index pages.

01325282732 or www.fpe-ltd.co.uk


hth

 

[mcostello]

You knew everything but Her dress size!

 

[frank horton]

woz gonna say go to a diff hydroulics place.....they are only as good as the employee;s.....most just dont care or are not old enogh to have the experience..

 

[MetalMonkey]

Thanks chaps.


The guys I tried are supposed to be a well regarded seal specialist - that's all they sell!
I've got a reply back from fpe, who were more helpful and can get a couple of them, but sadly not all.
Full marks to @zzr1200 "LW Piston seal" is what they identified it as!

@Agroshield those were a great shout - the draper ones looks identical! Unfortunately Draper discontinued the spares,
I've tried a couple of places listing them as "in stock" but they confirm they are unable to actually order them from Draper.

@Smallfry - measured as above, I couldn't find an exact match with a u-cup,. I don't really know enough about it to make a judgement call as to if it would work if I swapped over to a different style of seal. I assume u-cups are better?

The replacements from fpe seals are not extremely expensive, but I suspect by the time I've added on the postage and VAT I’m going to be close to the price of a new ram - which is I suppose why nobody bothers to fix them.
I suppose the other option is I just chuck in the new pump seals I’ve found, clean it up and keep my fingers crossed the ram seal was not the problem.

 

[zzr1200]

Thanks chaps.


The guys I tried are supposed to be a well regarded seal specialist - that's all they sell!
I've got a reply back from fpe, who were more helpful and can get a couple of them, but sadly not all.
Full marks to @zzr1200 "LW Piston seal" is what they identified it as!

@Agroshield those were a great shout - the draper ones looks identical! Unfortunately Draper discontinued the spares,
I've tried a couple of places listing them as "in stock" but they confirm they are unable to actually order them from Draper.

@Smallfry - measured as above, I couldn't find an exact match with a u-cup,. I don't really know enough about it to make a judgement call as to if it would work if I swapped over to a different style of seal. I assume u-cups are better?

The replacements from fpe seals are not extremely expensive, but I suspect by the time I've added on the postage and VAT I’m going to be close to the price of a new ram - which is I suppose why nobody bothers to fix them.
I suppose the other option is I just chuck in the new pump seals I’ve found, clean it up and keep my fingers crossed the ram seal was not the problem.

You don't list where you are located, so I can't suggest a seal supplier.

There is a possibility that the seal type could be changed by re-machining the piston rod to another seal design/profile/type, this is what generally is done when seals are not available, if the cylinder bore is still usable or the bore is replaced using the base/neck flange units.

 

[Brad93]

FPE Seals

 

[MetalMonkey]

You don't list where you are located, so I can't suggest a seal supplier.

There is a possibility that the seal type could be changed by re-machining the piston rod to another seal design/profile/type, this is what generally is done when seals are not available, if the cylinder bore is still usable or the bore is replaced using the base/neck flange units.

Norfolk, I've tried a few of the local places, and allseals up in Norwich, no dice.

ERIKS have a few of the o rings, but apparently they no longer have any branch stock or trade counters and will only deliver to your address. Bizarre, what is the point of having a local branch?
Chap was waxing lyrical about how great it was and the money saved and benefits to the customer - until I pointed out it was £8.99 delivery for £2.50 worth of o rings.

Ram is only about £40 to replace, so isn't really worth spending a lot of time and money trying to source seals for or re-machining- Must be a million of these cranes in the country, I genuinely didn't expect it to be so difficult to find spares!
I've found a seller in China that can sell a rebuild kit for less than the price of one of the O-rings from fpe, they also seem to have an upgraded pump mechanism with dual seals which might be worth considering.
I had hoped to fit better quality seals from a UK supplier, as Chinese ones always seem to disintegrate pretty quickly - but perhaps it isn't worth the effort.

FPE Seals

Already tried them brad.
They can do some, but not all, and price is getting on for a new ram.

 

[zzr1200]

MM....... FPE Ltd have a depot not to far from me, if you are willing to send me the ram. I could try and fit another seal type if you wanted, but there's always the risk it may not workout...depending on the mods required to fit another seal type....

 

[MetalMonkey]

Just thought I'd update this.

After a lot of back and forth with FPE trying to get the right seals quoted, I gave up - postage charge alone is 25% of the cost of the ram.
I didn't really want to get too far into modifying this thing, although it was kind of @zzr1200 to offer to help.

I did find another independent seal specialist that sounded very promising - knew exactly what i wanted, done loads of them, could do them no problem - so I sent all the details, was told to expect a quote.
Chased a couple of times. Still waiting. Given up.

I now need the crane back in service and had a bit of time today, so I've rebuilt it with some new pump o rings, and a new o ring to energise the original plastic piston seal thingy. They are standard sizes thankfully.
Gave it a thorough clean, made some new copper sealing washers, fresh oil and re-seated all the ball bearing valves.
I've just given it a test and it holds half a landrover without sinking down and peeing oil everywhere. So success I guess?

I have my doubts the pump seals will last long term, but for a couple of quid it will get me by for the time being.

If I have the inclination after I've finished with it, I might grab a couple of the updated design of pump from aliexpress, they are only a few quid and use a U cup, double seal design instead of one tiny o ring.
Seems like it would be better. I've also managed to track down the plastic piston seal on there too for a couple of quid delivered if I’m prepared to wait a month.

Not quite the resolution I was hoping for, but better than nothing.
However, it has reminded me that if China every decides to stop selling us stuff cheap, we are in serious trouble. Bugger all chance of cost effectively fixing it otherwise!

 

[RWD3M]

Just thought I'd update this.

After a lot of back and forth with FPE trying to get the right seals quoted, I gave up - postage charge alone is 25% of the cost of the ram.
I didn't really want to get too far into modifying this thing, although it was kind of @zzr1200 to offer to help.

I did find another independent seal specialist that sounded very promising - knew exactly what i wanted, done loads of them, could do them no problem - so I sent all the details, was told to expect a quote.
Chased a couple of times. Still waiting. Given up.

I now need the crane back in service and had a bit of time today, so I've rebuilt it with some new pump o rings, and a new o ring to energise the original plastic piston seal thingy. They are standard sizes thankfully.
Gave it a thorough clean, made some new copper sealing washers, fresh oil and re-seated all the ball bearing valves.
I've just given it a test and it holds half a landrover without sinking down and peeing oil everywhere. So success I guess?

I have my doubts the pump seals will last long term, but for a couple of quid it will get me by for the time being.

If I have the inclination after I've finished with it, I might grab a couple of the updated design of pump from aliexpress, they are only a few quid and use a U cup, double seal design instead of one tiny o ring.
Seems like it would be better. I've also managed to track down the plastic piston seal on there too for a couple of quid delivered if I’m prepared to wait a month.

Not quite the resolution I was hoping for, but better than nothing.
However, it has reminded me that if China every decides to stop selling us stuff cheap, we are in serious trouble. Bugger all chance of cost effectively fixing it otherwise!

This needs a for the first bit and a for that last paragraph.

 

[OJCar]

I've just given it a test and it holds half a landrover without sinking down and peeing oil everywhere.

The Land Rover or the crane peeing oil everywhere ?


<Before anyone else says it>

I've been following this tread with interest, as I have two of the Clarke Cranes.