bletchmonster
Member
- Messages
- 716
- Location
- Cheshire. England.
The great thing about bargain basement clarke migs and the like, is they convince a lot of punters that they can't weld and need me!!!!
- Thread starter Ben88
- Start date
bletchmonster
Member
- Messages
- 716
- Location
- Cheshire. England.
I should add that I don't really get any joy from the fact, just seems to be a regular occurance
C
Chris Stevens
Guest
A good quality used MIG in reasonable condition is a lot less likely to go wrong than a new budget machine. I used a Murex for 18 years without any sort of major problems.
C
Chris Stevens
Guest
In the bad old days when I did vehicle welding, found the same thing.............tried some of the customers DIY sets, and they were truly dreadful.
But he wants portability.
cumbriasteve
Moderator
- Messages
- 9,643
- Location
- Cumbria UK
The other great thing about them is they have allowed thousands of people to restore cars, make projects and even earn money.
Lots of 'punters' buy good machines and end up seeking help when their welds don't turn out as expected.
For a person on perhaps a low budget with a small amount of restoration to a vehicle, an all singing, all dancing MIG costing perhaps £600 or so is an unrealistic option.
For a person making gates for a living, a budget Clarke is also an unrealistic option.
All machines have a slot in the market.
A few years back I was in Aldi when they last offered the Wolf MIG set they used to do. I think it may have been just gasless. It was pretty much panned on here as a bottom drawer offering.
I was just looking at it and an old bloke came along was waxing enthusiastic about it and told me to buy one if I was even slightly tempted. Then he went on about the things he'd repaired with it and brackets he'd made for the for the fence and all sorts of little projects he'd done. He was in for some more gasless wire.
He'd obviously used this machine to good effect and it had enabled him to do things he couldn't otherwise have done and he was happy with it. Who was I to tell him he'd got no business being happy with it?
cumbriasteve
Moderator
- Messages
- 9,643
- Location
- Cumbria UK
Exactly: A couple of weeks ago I was on my afternoon stroll and saw an arc flashing away, head over the fence (as you do) and got chatting, the guy was using one of the old grey sip's to make a bracket for his radio mast.
Apparently he had the machine for more years than he can remember, someone was cleaning out their house and gave it to him, had admitted he had never found it brilliant to use but had made allsorts and repaired loads of items with no great problems.
I think we often forget there are many times more people out there with cheapo welding sets tucked away for occasional use than there are members on this forum, some of those machines we would not give shed space to but they do what the owner wants of them.
Yes, Clarke MIG machines have been very popular for years and although you can certainly get better MIG sets which have more settings, better duty cycle, longer design life, better wire feed and all the rest, a lot of good car restorations have been done with them. They didn't sell so well because almost everyone who bought one found it unusable and had to pay someone else to do their welding.
A few weeks back a friend of mine who was a mechanic for years and has put a lot of patches on cars in his time, used my R-Tech MIG to do some patching. He said it was quite the nicest, smoothest MIG he'd ever used. He usually drags out a SIP, which lives under a load of rubbish, to do his patching.
I've known a few people with buzz-boxes in the shed which they pull out every now and then to stick some metal together which needs sticking together. They don't weld for fun but having a buzz-box saves a lot of time and money.
A few weeks back a friend of mine who was a mechanic for years and has put a lot of patches on cars in his time, used my R-Tech MIG to do some patching. He said it was quite the nicest, smoothest MIG he'd ever used. He usually drags out a SIP, which lives under a load of rubbish, to do his patching.
I've known a few people with buzz-boxes in the shed which they pull out every now and then to stick some metal together which needs sticking together. They don't weld for fun but having a buzz-box saves a lot of time and money.
C
Chris Stevens
Guest
It seems to me that suggesting budget entry level machines for beginners, is a bit like promoting the use of Silverline spanners and sockets for DIY home mechanics. Sure the Silverline stuff will do the job, but that doesnt alter the fact that used Snap On will also do the job, but for a lot longer, and without breaking...............
gaz1
Member
- Messages
- 20,343
- Location
- westyorkshire
I cant say nothing much to that other than ive got both clarke and sip and they have done everything that ive asked for
im also considering moving up the range from diy machine to a semi pro machine but being restricted to the 13amp fuse until a rewire is done to shed to get 16amps or more for mig or plasma cutter
the one thing with the cheapo sets i can get both clarke and the a plasma cutter cut 50 and air tank and its still under 600.00
edit
i dont think so chris its just a good starting point and many dont want to spend a fortune and find they cant weld with mig or stick
cumbriasteve
Moderator
- Messages
- 9,643
- Location
- Cumbria UK
Just checking: Snap On welding sets never break?
I somehow suspect that statement can be taken with a pinch of salt.
I'd never recommend anyone buy anything marked Silverline. Everything I've ever seen by them has been rubbish.
My socket set is Toolstar. Japanese, over 35 years old, not dear when it was bought out of Exchange and Mart and it's done everything I've ever wanted it to, including rebuilding a couple of engines. I have expensive spanners, King Dick, Gordon etc, and cheapies made in India. The expensive ones feel nicer but there have been no problems with the cheap ones.
I have an expensive Sandvik ratchet handle which cost a painful amount of money. It was given to me. It's a beautiful thing. It's obviously better engineered than the Toolstar ratchet handle, but there have been no problems with the Toolstar.
As far as I'm concerned Snap On would have been a total waste of money. I've always had the idea that the reason they were so popular was that there was an instalment payment scheme. Years ago tradesmen usually bought Britool socket sets and wouldn't have anything else.
My socket set is Toolstar. Japanese, over 35 years old, not dear when it was bought out of Exchange and Mart and it's done everything I've ever wanted it to, including rebuilding a couple of engines. I have expensive spanners, King Dick, Gordon etc, and cheapies made in India. The expensive ones feel nicer but there have been no problems with the cheap ones.
I have an expensive Sandvik ratchet handle which cost a painful amount of money. It was given to me. It's a beautiful thing. It's obviously better engineered than the Toolstar ratchet handle, but there have been no problems with the Toolstar.
As far as I'm concerned Snap On would have been a total waste of money. I've always had the idea that the reason they were so popular was that there was an instalment payment scheme. Years ago tradesmen usually bought Britool socket sets and wouldn't have anything else.
C
Chris Stevens
Guest
Just checking: Snap On welding sets never break?
I somehow suspect that statement can be taken with a pinch of salt.
My point was its possible for beginner mechanics to work with Silverline tools, but that Snap On tools are a good deal better, will last longer, and are less likely to break. I didnt mention Snap On welding gear, but did have a Snap On stickered Cebora, which was I feel as bad or worse than SIP, RT, Clarke or any of the other entry level gear.................
Like I said, I've always found Silverline to be a total waste of time, but there are modestly priced tools, Draper and others, which are good enough for most people's needs. Snap On, I've never been tempted by; overpriced in my estimation and for what I need.
We'd all like the very best tools there are, but we have limited amounts of money we can spend, so we have to make the best compromise we can between spending money and having something good enough even if it's not the ultimate quality/longest lasting/nicest to use. Partly it depends on the amount of use we are going to give the tool and partly on whether we are making money by using it. Some of it depends how well off we are and what else is going on in our lives to spend money on.
Some of the fun and the pain is deciding how we make the compromise, the moderately priced equipment which presents the best trade off between price and performance, or second hand equipment with its potential problems and advantages. e.g. some people on here think fixing electrical and electronic problems in MIG sets is fun and have designed their own boards, and to others, it's just a nightmare.
I can't say I've ever really regretted buying expensive tools, when I've done it. The pain of the expense is a one off and the pleasure of using it is always there. I've got a pair of Lindstrom side cutters that were about £30 and they are just beautiful to use. Most people would be unhappy paying any more than a couple of quid.
One argument for cheap tools is that if you've never had an angle grinder say, £15 isn't much to spend and you can find out what one can do and whether you have a use for it. £150 for an top end Makita is a lot to have tied up in something you only use for five minutes once every couple of years.
All that said, although I could lay hands on £1400, and I'm sure it would be a beautiful thing, I'm not about to spend it on a Kemppi MIG set.
We'd all like the very best tools there are, but we have limited amounts of money we can spend, so we have to make the best compromise we can between spending money and having something good enough even if it's not the ultimate quality/longest lasting/nicest to use. Partly it depends on the amount of use we are going to give the tool and partly on whether we are making money by using it. Some of it depends how well off we are and what else is going on in our lives to spend money on.
Some of the fun and the pain is deciding how we make the compromise, the moderately priced equipment which presents the best trade off between price and performance, or second hand equipment with its potential problems and advantages. e.g. some people on here think fixing electrical and electronic problems in MIG sets is fun and have designed their own boards, and to others, it's just a nightmare.
I can't say I've ever really regretted buying expensive tools, when I've done it. The pain of the expense is a one off and the pleasure of using it is always there. I've got a pair of Lindstrom side cutters that were about £30 and they are just beautiful to use. Most people would be unhappy paying any more than a couple of quid.
One argument for cheap tools is that if you've never had an angle grinder say, £15 isn't much to spend and you can find out what one can do and whether you have a use for it. £150 for an top end Makita is a lot to have tied up in something you only use for five minutes once every couple of years.
All that said, although I could lay hands on £1400, and I'm sure it would be a beautiful thing, I'm not about to spend it on a Kemppi MIG set.
Ben88
Member
- Messages
- 174
- Location
- Lancashire
cheers guys i appreciate your opinions i think the best thing i can do is stick to my budget an just worry about it doing car body work & exhausts an keep it mobile. I'm going looking at 2 at weekend no clue what they are yet, only wants £150 each an there ready to test so its worth a look. If there no good i found these https://www.gumtree.com/p/welding-equipment/clark-s-mig-welder/1159156823 https://www.gumtree.com/p/welding-e...-large-co2-bottle-and-accessories./1160966408 which should do what i need it to obviously now i'm less worried about going over 3mm it wont get as much use as i previously was thinking so it'll be used a few nights a week for repairs an such. Any money i earn will go in a pot saving to get something more suited to what i originally wanted.
gaz1
Member
- Messages
- 20,343
- Location
- westyorkshire
that clarke one is near me and i thought it had sold to a member on here who was also coming to view it as id said call in and try my 2 if they wanted to do
151te is fine i have the blue one in my case the 150tm i think mines gas only on it the small gas bottle is nothing even without gas you will get a poor bead but should produce enough build and also a bead proper way is with gas though
151te is fine i have the blue one in my case the 150tm i think mines gas only on it the small gas bottle is nothing even without gas you will get a poor bead but should produce enough build and also a bead proper way is with gas though
bletchmonster
Member
- Messages
- 716
- Location
- Cheshire. England.
I just think, as with any tool, below a certain budget, welders become poor value, and the bottom budget machines of today are a long way from one from 15 or 20 years ago
C
Chris Stevens
Guest
The point I was trying to make is that anyone with say £400 to spend, would get a far better machine if they opted for used quality set, rather than new Chinese.
