Head gasket advice Copper V Composite

[jordhandson]

My fergie engine was fitted with a copper one, looking for advice as to what to replace it with, another copper or a composite one.


Is there any advantage or disadvantages to either ????????????.

 

[brightspark]

is the original solid copper one still in good nick if it is just aneal it and put it back on

 

[jordhandson]

is the original solid copper one still in good nick if it is just aneal it and put it back on

brightspark I dont think its solid copper do you recon it would still aneal

 

[Rig Pig]

That's not a reusable gasket.

 

[jordhandson]

That's not a reusable gasket.

yeh somehow I though that.

 

[zx9]

My fergie engine was fitted with a copper one, looking for advice as to what to replace it with, another copper or a composite one.


Is there any advantage or disadvantages to either ????????????.

I have no idea of what you can get for tractors but you may find the composite gaskets are thicker than the original copper ones so may need the head to be skimmed to return the compression ratio, that is the case with early Land Rover V8s.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

Go buy a new head gasket set. Not worth messing around with it.

They kit will have all the parts you need to rebuild the head.
Plus you know it is good to go.

 

[jordhandson]

Go buy a new head gasket set. Not worth messing around with it.

They kit will have all the parts you need to rebuild the head.
Plus you know it is good to go.

Thats the idea do I go with copper or composite I gather fibre just wondered on the difference or quality

 

[brightspark]

brightspark I dont think its solid copper do you recon it would still aneal

View attachment 213482

no that's just a pressed gasket the one on my Norton was solid you probably get one from agrispares that's where I got my perkins gaskets from

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

Thats the idea do I go with copper or composite I gather fibre just wondered on the difference or quality

I never noticed much difference.
I go for the good kit my supplier gets me.

What I do know that no head gasket is worth didly, unless the head is true.

 

[m_c]

A good fibre gasket is better than a copper gasket, as it seals oil/water ways better, however I have seen some pretty poor fibre gaskets.
If you go copper, one tip I was given years ago, was to give it a coat of paint just before you fit it, as the paint helps seal the water/oil ways. It's essentially the same principle that modern MLS (Multi Layer Steel) gaskets use.

Any decent quality gasket will do the job. The only real reason to use a copper, is if you're a purest who wants to keep everything as original as possible.

 

[arther dailey]

always thought the idea of copper was in its anealed state it is softer than the cast iron head/block and so deforms (fractionally) as needed to make a full and proper seal, and with heat it expands more than cast so keeps that seal .
the modern multi layer with sealer between layers use the same principal, the sealer taking the crush so to speak and seal.

 

[m_c]

Copper gaskets never provide a perfect seal, just one good enough so leakage is never really an issue. The big thing was in that era, it was sandwiched between two big blocks of cast iron, so everything expanded reasonably in unison, and keeping levels topped up was just something you had to do regularly.

Fibre allows for the movements, but they also seal using lines of sealant, so you're not relying on a bit metal deforming to seal against another bit metal.

MLS came about because fibre doesn't play well with aluminium cylinder heads, and copper is expensive. Due to the increased movements, the cylinder sealing rings would eat in to the cylinder head, eventually leading to failure (ala Rover K-series - it was actually an excellent engine, just crippled by penny pinching). By using an MLS gasket, the load from movements is spread over a larger area, and the paint layer seals any imperfections.


Off course, the fact a modern head gasket will last for hundreds of thousands miles, is only partly down to improved head gasket technology. Everything around the head gasket is far better under stood, from material properties, localised heating, coolant/heat flow, and even how to hold and tighten everything together.

 

[arther dailey]

steel being harder than an aluminium head has never sat well with me, fine if it has a sealing layer,but my preferance for ali headed "modern" engine would still be multi layered copper if available. but I think the original question was about a cast iron tractor engine

 

[Olderisbetter]

Old gaskets used to look great polished up and lacquered and hung on the wall.

 

[Rrobson]

(ala Rover K-series - it was actually an excellent engine, just crippled by penny pinching)

Think that's the first good thing I've ever heard about a k series outside of a rover forum! Penny pinching indeed, but an incorrectly located thermostat didn't help! Saying that, the earlier elastomer gaskets were (and still are) better than most of the later produced multi layer ones. I don't fit anything other than an elastomer to a k.

Other than that a well explained post, however you've got to be careful of other issues like galvanic corrosion, copper can do strange things when mixed with other metals...

 

[m_c]

Think that's the first good thing I've ever heard about a k series outside of a rover forum! Penny pinching indeed, but an incorrectly located thermostat didn't help! Saying that, the earlier elastomer gaskets were (and still are) better than most of the later produced multi layer ones. I don't fit anything other than an elastomer to a k.

Other than that a well explained post, however you've got to be careful of other issues like galvanic corrosion, copper can do strange things when mixed with other metals...

When designed, the K-series engine had one of the best bhp per kg outputs for a production car engine. At the time it was released, it was a pretty advanced engine.
A lot of head gasket failures could have been avoided by simply adding a low coolant warning, as a lot of failures were caused by overheating due to other leaks, not the head gasket itself. However in higher demanding vehicles (aka Freelander) the head gasket itself was a common failure point, which is why Land Rover eventually solved the problem by using a MLS gasket, and designing an uprated ladder frame to reduce flex/movement.

 

[Olderisbetter]

The K series was a great design and used by many other companies, I had a drive of a k series metro with 1.8 engine in it and they should have made it as a production car like the hot Japanese hatches.

 

[arther dailey]

agree about the k series did my bils freelander, drained the rad..well would have done, not a drop of water came out, told him I would do gasket at his risk, he wouldnt fork out for the upgrade ladder,urgghhh family, anyways it worked for several years so all was well, cracking good engine set up right

 

[arther dailey]

Think that's the first good thing I've ever heard about a k series outside of a rover forum! Penny pinching indeed, but an incorrectly located thermostat didn't help! Saying that, the earlier elastomer gaskets were (and still are) better than most of the later produced multi layer ones. I don't fit anything other than an elastomer to a k.

Other than that a well explained post, however you've got to be careful of other issues like galvanic corrosion, copper can do strange things when mixed with other metals...

agree hence the need for coatings