handmade files

[colnerov]

Just watching it once I almost had nightmares about hand punching the holes! Doing one file a day would be pushing my limits.

I do wonder though if there's any practical advantage to doing it by hand, or whether it's a bit like Rolls Royce type of places doing things the slow way by hand because that's how we've always done it, they're 'individually hand crafted' and as a result cost 15x as much to produce...? I find it impossible to think that it couldn't be done to at least the same quality level by machine.

Hi,I can remember the programme in a series on TV years ago when Morgan wanted to increase their production of cars and Sir John Harvey Jones went in followed by the TV crew. He was aghast at some of their working practices and notably said something along the lines of. "I know they're making hand built cars, but they don't have to do everything by hand, they can use machines for some jobs"

Colin

 

[ronan]

Hi,I can remember the programme in a series on TV years ago when Morgan wanted to increase their production of cars and Sir John Harvey Jones went in followed by the TV crew. He was aghast at some of their working practices and notably said something along the lines of. "I know they're making hand built cars, but they don't have to do everything by hand, they can use machines for some jobs"

Colin

I remember that, that was "Troubleshooter", it was an interesting programme. Very good compared to the rubbish they make now.

 

[norlander]

Rapés and rifloirs are usually woodworking rasps not files which are "limes" (leems). Don't ask me how I found that out

http://www.forge-de-saint-juery.com/

 

[Kent]

You can find no better adaptation of highly skilled craftsmen working by hand and use of the latest machine processes than the English gun trade
Purdey, Holland and Holland. Langthorpe guns actually have been producing fantastic guns by new machining processes ( essentially they are specialist machinists for aerospace with a growing side line)

 

[slim_boy_fat]

Rapés and rifloirs are usually woodworking rasps not files which are "limes" (leems). Don't ask me how I found that out

http://www.forge-de-saint-juery.com/

The range of knowledge on here never ceases to amaze me.

 

[ronan]

You can find no better adaptation of highly skilled craftsmen working by hand and use of the latest machine processes than the English gun trade
Purdey, Holland and Holland. Langthorpe guns actually have been producing fantastic guns by new machining processes ( essentially they are specialist machinists for aerospace with a growing side line)

Don't forget Westley Richards in Birmingham. I have been lucky enough to handle a couple of new WR rifles. Although i agree with you about the files, if you see any video of purdey or holland or WR workshops, a lot of the work is now done by cnc, only to be expected i suppose.

 

[Kent]

Ronan
Of course certain things need hand finishing but machining has come a long way in the last 100- 150 years

 

[ronan]

Ronan
Of course certain things need hand finishing but machining has come a long way in the last 100- 150 years

Of course, but can the high-end gunmakers really claim their products are better than say a factory produced beretta, browning or perazzi ? Personally i think mechanically they are all on par, its just the engraving and wood quality that sets them apart, and even then they are close.

 

[norlander]

Of course, but can the high-end gunmakers really claim their products are better than say a factory produced beretta, browning or perazzi ? Personally i think mechanically they are all on par, its just the engraving and wood quality that sets them apart, and even then they are close.

you are probably right there Jonesy, but I think Purdeys and H&H are made to measure (well initially anyway). Plus I suppose there is the snob factor
Doubt it makes any odds to Phil the Pheasant what gun brought him down though.

 

[norlander]

The range of knowledge on here never ceases to amaze me.

Ah, well, I once saw an Army annual confidential career report that read " this man has a vast fund of military knowledge, unfortunately, none of it is of any practical use, unless a military version of Trivial Pursuits is invented".
And, "The only reason I can deduce for soldiers to follow this man is out of sheer curiosity as to what he is about to do next".
AND, before eschen; snooper etc chime in-that was not written about me

 

[sardine]

We used to use Valorbe Swiss made files in the gun factory. Some of which we forged into different shapes, a ground safe edges on.

 

[Kent]

Of course, but can the high-end gunmakers really claim their products are better than say a factory produced beretta, browning or perazzi ? Personally i think mechanically they are all on par, its just the engraving and wood quality that sets them
apart, and even then they are close.

Shoot one and see, it's more than finish. Hard to describe more about how they come to life

If you pick up s baikel it's perfectly shortage right - then pick up and feel a nice high end Italian gun - different right? Now your English gun is that again with a better finish

Internally? Well hand finishing gives everything a better fit and there ain't likely to be any soft bits that should be hard etc
Triggers worked on by a pro with all the time in the world etc.

Ten or twenty times as good? No nut a better investment

 

[Bill Edwards]

I've never shot anything such as a Purdey but have shot a couple of Brownings and borrowed one or two guns which will have been quite a few thousand.
Apart from the woodwork and metalwork I couldn't really say anything jumped out and hit me as being nicer than any of the others, even my Lanber.
I'm sure there will be slightly finer tolerances and more time spent on the weight balance etc but to me it's down to the cosmetics really.

Personally I don't find myself interested in fancy guns, nothing wrong with those who do but they're not for me. And I do get some pleasure from getting better scores than others with my best gun (Lanber) which cost me a fortune at £100

 

[brightspark]

Are Stubbs files still made in England or have they gone like Nicolson files in America and are made in the third world ?

I don't know I just look at them all at autojumbles and if there named and decent and cheap I get them its took 20 years to get a pile of good second hand ones

 

[norlander]

Guns as in Remington Wingmaster, were tools to me, no place for fancy stuff, just needed them to be reliable, same as the rifles. Don't own one now, don't want to, don't want to pick one up again. Bit sad that a thread about tools for construction has gone to to tools of destruction. Funny auld game.

 

[Freddy0309]

I've shot a few guns that are worth a truly eye watering amount of money and there is a lot of difference between them and the guns I've owned, is the price difference equal to the quality? God no. Would I go buy one if money wasn't issue? In a heart beat, I shot more left and rights with those guns then my own. I don't think it was a mechanical edge (although the balance was better) I think it was more of psychological thing

 

[hareng]

They only employ fitters Kent who moan about removing 4 thou, they sacked all the craftsmen decades ago apart from barrel makers and engravers, how do I know.

 

[hareng]

Unfortunately Ronan thats what its come down to cosmetics rather than the appeal of true craftsmanship. Engraving and wood grain etc don't make it perform any better, its about unseen precision no machine can do following certain traditions of looks. What you will get by cnc is mis shaping of springs to look traditional rather than perform ie laser cut are weaker than forged hence the problems with brand new £98k guns as at 16 years ago price.

Other argument was when the US realised about 14 years ago they were paying for hand made when getting a volume produced hand assembled item at same price, bottom dropped out of market overnight. Price of parts is same whether cnc in a batch or one off hand made, have to pay for the spotty faced kid to draw parts up taking years to recoup the high initial setup costs.

 

[Kent]

Guns as in Remington Wingmaster, were tools to me, no place for fancy stuff, just needed them to be reliable, same as the rifles. Don't own one now, don't want to, don't want to pick one up again. Bit sad that a thread about tools for construction has gone
to to tools of destruction. Funny auld game
.

I don't tools of distruction- you mean same as a cold chisel etc then yes other than that they are just tools

 

[Kent]

There is still proper talent around In the Guntrade. Like there always has been and also in all trades there are some pretenders, some artisans that beat or equal the best etc etc
Balance and handling. Crisp triggers and a well regulated barrel matter. Finish doesn't

For the record I mostly shoot a Winchester auto with a plastic stock