Gear head or belt driven lathe?

[Agroshield]

Drill chucks are produced to resist vertical forces...

You could go further than that and say 'vertical compressive forces'.

As you say lower down the post, milling will produce tensile forces, dragging stuff out of then spindle, hence why milling machines use drawbars to retain the tooling.

 

[Bdog507]

Good afternoon all.

The Chester & Warco type of machine are fine for hobby use, but often once one owns such a machine one will find it's capacity limiting. Either in actual material capacity, or in its ability to remove metal.
Which is why I'd recommend seeking out decent industrial machinery & run it off a three phase converter.

Obviously one would have to buy wisely, because such machines are often pretty worn, & tarted up for sale. I would think that a budget of 7k would be enough to find a decent lathe & milling machine.

I Was going to upgrade my Colchester Student to a Colchester Master 2500. Then a Colchester Triumph 2000 came along at a good price. I ummed & aaahhd as to whether I needed a 7.5 inch lathe with a 5.5kw motor......You bet I did!
I bought it, & almost immediately found it's capacity & extra grunt a decided bonus. Also being a gap bed machine I can machine most motorcycle wheels if need be.
Likewise my milling machine. I was looking for a decent Bridgeport. Then a Semco machine came along. It's built in Taiwan, & has a 40int spindle as opposed to the rather feeble R8 that's found in Bridgeports & many others.
It's hogs off metal at quite a rate of need be, but is smooth and accurate for delicate work. Recently I had to mill off the tips of some carburettor float pins that some oaf had burred over on some Japanese carbs. Carb bodies are pretty fragile, but the mill being smooth & rigid did it with ease using a 1.5mm slot drill.

As for machine tooling. I've found Gloster tools to be pretty good for things like ER collets & chucks which one needs for milling cutters. For as said, one shouldn't try milling with a drill chuck.

Just my tuppence worth.

Cheers.

 

[fizzy]

Currently, I am in the market for a lathe and a mill. It should run on single phase as I have no sensible option of getting 3 phase into my garage.

The last time I used a mill or a lathe is just shy of 30 years ago. So quite a steep learning curve ahead. With this in mind, I am reluctant to go the second hand route as I just don’t have the knowledge to judge if I am buying a good machine or a lemon.

Hence, why I have been looking at new chinese machines.

Contenders are;

Warco D320 vario/geared lathe.

D320 Vario/Geared Lathe (with stand and DRO)

10% off when you pre-order today!Vario Geared hobby lathe Stand & DRO included! Powerful 1.5kw motor Includes FREE Accessories Tested for Accuracy - Report Supplied Excellent Spare-Parts Availability 12-Month Warranty Fast & FREE DELIVERY to UK mainland BUY NOW PAY LATER with PayPal (subject to...

www.warco.co.uk

Warco GH Universal mill

Warco GH Universal Milling Drilling Machine - Gear Head Mill

Versatile milling-drilling machine See DRO version here > Gear head with excellent precision Tested for Accuracy Excellent Spare-Parts Availability 12-Month Warranty Fast & FREE DELIVERY to UK mainland Optional stand sold separately > Optional wide coolant tray sold separately > Questions &...

www.warco.co.uk

Chester Crusader - Deluxe Lathe

Crusader Lathe - Metalworking Hobby Engineer Lathe

Our Crusader lathe is built to last, providing outstanding reliability and quality. Ideal for performing various operations including turning and boring. Featuring all the benefits of our range of hobby metal lathes, including tapered roller bearings, hardened and ground gears.

www.chesterhobbystore.com

Chester Super Lux B mill

Super Lux Mill - High Quality Milling Machine

Our Super Lux Mill is suitable for a variety of milling applications, featuring all the benefits of our range of mills including powered head elevation, dovetail column and tilting head, making it ideal for the hobby engineer.

www.chesterhobbystore.com

The Chester is a proper gear head lathe, whilst the Warco is a combinationof.

Price, including delivery charges, is roughly the same when all is said and done.

Any drawbacks to any of these machines that the more experienced operators can see? All the listed machines will do more then I need them for.

Many thanks.

For that kind of money you could buy proper quality old British lathes from reputable machine tool dealers.
No 3 phase? Just fit an inverter.

 

[CEJM]

Apologies for the late reply.

Thank you for the explanation, it is appreciated!

I just bought a Harrison M300 lathe, 3 phase which will need to be fitted with a vfd.

Still looking for a good mill. I have been looking at a Bridgeport BR2J2 with slotting head.

BRIDGEPORT BR2J2 PLUS SLOTTING HEAD | traceymachinery

www.traceymachinery.co.uk

Which should do everything I need it to do. It is a 3 phase machine so will need to have a vfd fitted.

Any opinions?

 

[RobCox]

I just bought a Harrison M300 lathe

Good choice! I'm on my 2nd one.

 

[mightymig]

Have a look at https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/bridgeport-lb900.146581/ double quick

 

[Bdog507]

Apologies for the late reply.

Thank you for the explanation, it is appreciated!

I just bought a Harrison M300 lathe, 3 phase which will need to be fitted with a vfd.

Still looking for a good mill. I have been looking at a Bridgeport BR2J2 with slotting head.

BRIDGEPORT BR2J2 PLUS SLOTTING HEAD | traceymachinery

www.traceymachinery.co.uk

Which should do everything I need it to do. It is a 3 phase machine so will need to have a vfd fitted.

Any opinions?

An excellent choice. is it a straight bed, or a gap bed?

One good thing about the M300 is the 38mm spindle bore. There's nothing more frustrating than having to chop a long bar into sections if one is making lots of items. Plus it wastes metal. My Triumph 2000 has a 54mm spindle bore which is dead handy as I often make things from 2 inch bar.

As to both the Bridgeport's that have popped up. The Facebook one is pretty cheap. So either they don't know what they have, or there's something they're not telling. It's also a belt change machine. A variable speed head is so much nicer to have.
Tracey Machinery have been around a long time, and always appear to have a good range of machinery at reasonable prices. I very nearly went to view a milling machine there, but the Semco mill that I bought came up more locally.
Both of the Bridgeport's were made by Adcock and Shipley in the UK which makes them pretty old. I think A&S started making Bridgeport's in the 60's and finished in the 80's. Not that an old machine can't be a good machine. My Triumph dates from about 1973, and it's still pretty darn good!

It's worth remembering that like Myford lathes, Bridgeport mills have a touch of the 'Fairy dust' about them. Namely they're often priced higher than other more capable machinery just because they have 'the name'. So I wouldn't rule out others.
Taiwan make very good machinery. My Semco was made by a Taiwanese company called First Machinery. Then there's KRV, XYZ, and I beleive Pinnacle are also Taiwanese. Ajax are good. I don't know about now, but they used to be made in Spain.
I bought my Semco about 8 years ago. It has a 54x10 inch table. 3hp motor. A 40int spindle. Align power feed on the X axis, and a power drawbar, plus an Anilam DRO.
The dealer also had an excellent 8 inch Vertex rotary table with a 5 inch Burnerd chuck attached, with both inner and outer jaws. I paid a shade under 4k for the lot.

Cheers.

Stewart.

 

[Bdog507]

I've just had a better look at the Bridgeport that Tracey machinery are selling.
My guess would be late 80's. As both the machine & the slotting head are badged Textron. Textron bought Adcock & Shipley in 1986.

It looks to be a decent machine. With power feed on the Y axis which means you can climb mill on the Y axis.
Although I've never required a slotting head, having one would give you more capability if required.
My only consideration is that a slotting head on it's own would usually sell for around £800 I would think. Which makes the machine itself very cheap, & that fact makes me wonder why. As machine took dealers usually remove any additional items they get with the machine & sell them separately. So has the slotting head been left on to make the machine more desirable?

Having said that. Tracey machinery do seem to have a good reputation.
I've just looked at other machines they have, & there are a couple of Semco machines that would be worth a look, along with several others that fit the bill, & would be within your budget.
Those prices may be plus VAT don't forget.

Cheers.

Stewart.

 

[indykid]

With power feed on the Y axis which means you can climb mill on the Y axis.

I wouldn't say that's a correct association. Climb milling (not just clean up tickling) without backlash control will just result in powered bad times

 

[Bdog507]

I wouldn't say that's a correct association. Climb milling (not just clean up tickling) without backlash control will just result in powered bad times

I'd have to disagree with that. Providing the screws are in good order & the gibs are adjusted correctly there's no reason that climb milling cannot be done on a good manual machine.
My mill only has power feed on the X axis, & I regularly do 2 or 3mm climb milling cuts in tough steel with no issues & a good finish. Perhaps not at the same rate as a modern CNC machine would do it, but quick enough all the same.

For those that are wondering what climb milling is. It's where the cutting tools rotation and the feed of the workpiece are both in the same direction. Think of an end mill cutter rotating clockwise as viewed from above, and the workpiece being fed from left to right. The cutter will try and pull itself into the workpiece. Obviously on an old and worn machine this could have nasty consequences, as the cutter would dig in, possibly break, and most certainly bugger the workpiece. On a rigid machine this won't occur.
Trying to climb mill whilst hand feeding the table can be done, but only on very light cuts.

The advantages of climb milling are. A better finish, and it gives the cutters an easier life, as they don't have to chop up the chips they create. Also one can cut in both directions. If one is milling a fair bit off a workpiece, climb milling allows one to cut in both directions it's rather tedious and time consuming to have to wind the table back and cut in only one direction.


Cheers.


Stewart.

 

[indykid]

I'd have to disagree with that. Providing the screws are in good order & the gibs are adjusted correctly there's no reason that climb milling cannot be done on a good manual machine.
My mill only has power feed on the X axis, & I regularly do 2 or 3mm climb milling cuts in tough steel with no issues & a good finish. Perhaps not at the same rate as a modern CNC machine would do it, but quick enough all the same.

For those that are wondering what climb milling is. It's where the cutting tools rotation and the feed of the workpiece are both in the same direction. Think of an end mill cutter rotating clockwise as viewed from above, and the workpiece being fed from left to right. The cutter will try and pull itself into the workpiece. Obviously on an old and worn machine this could have nasty consequences, as the cutter would dig in, possibly break, and most certainly bugger the workpiece. On a rigid machine this won't occur.
Trying to climb mill whilst hand feeding the table can be done, but only on very light cuts.

The advantages of climb milling are. A better finish, and it gives the cutters an easier life, as they don't have to chop up the chips they create. Also one can cut in both directions. If one is milling a fair bit off a workpiece, climb milling allows one to cut in both directions it's rather tedious and time consuming to have to wind the table back and cut in only one direction.


Cheers.


Stewart.

I agree that it can be done with acme leadscrews, especially if you add a bit of drag with the table locks, but your statement was referencing an unknown machine and in a thread started by an inexperienced person looking to buy machines, saying 'if it has power feed it can climb' without all the followup caveats is misleading. That was all.

 

[Bdog507]

I agree that it can be done with acme leadscrews, especially if you add a bit of drag with the table locks, but your statement was referencing an unknown machine and in a thread started by an inexperienced person looking to buy machines, saying 'if it has power feed it can climb' without all the followup caveats is misleading. That was all.

At the risk of running the five minute argument or the full half hour. You're now saying that one can climb mill without backlash control.

Anyway. If the original poster struck me as being an idiot I would not have contributed to this thread. For idiots shouldn't be allowed near machine tools end of.
However, as he didn't strike me as such, I added my tuppence worth.
I doubt that anyone with half a brain would go near any machine tool without some serious boning up on the subject. So, conversely he may not have known about climb milling Vs conventional milling, but he does now, (as does anyone else reading this thread), & can read up on it.


Cheers.


Stewart.