Gas change from CO2 to Argon 5 - cant set up correctly - Help please

[hundred]

Right to start at the beginning, I am restoring a Mini and having no previous welding experience I got a mate, whos a welder, to teach me.

I was using a SIP Migmate and CO2, which was pants, so upgraded to a Parweld 161 from Weldequip which is ace but needed to use my CO2 bottle up before moving to Argon5.

All was going well with the CO2 until it ran out so I went to pick up a 10L bottle of Argon yesterday, rigged it up and now I can't get it set up correctly.

Before, with CO2, I was using power setting 2 and wire feed 2 and that worked perfectly but on these settings using the Argon it doesnt penetrate and the weld just sits on top of the metal, I tried going up to power setting 3 but that didnt help much.

Is there anything any of you guys can advise as I really have no clue what to do.

cheers Graham

 

[Stree]

I am probably wrong here, still learning myself but isnt pure argon just for ally or stainless? If its auto panels you should be using argoshield light. CO2/Argon mix, Ideally argoshield light but you can also use a universal or heavy mix, although I assume these are for thicker gauges. You need to get twin regulators another bottle of C)2 and max your own! Suggest you get the correct mix from one of the experienced members here rather than guess.
Good luck!

 

[rtbcomp]

It's very tricky to mix gasses, much better to get a single bottle of the correct gas.

An adult will be along soon to say exactly which mix you need.

 

[GrahamGKD]

Graham,
Not sure what Argon 5 is but if it is pure argon there is a bit on it's use for MIG welding steel here:

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/welding-gas.htm

Hope that helps?

Graham.

 

[hundred]

Graham,
Not sure what Argon 5 is but if it is pure argon there is a bit on it's use for MIG welding steel here:

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/welding-gas.htm

Hope that helps?

Graham.

Hi Argon 5 is a single bottle, its the J R gases equivelant to Argoshield or similar I believe, basically I rang them up told them what i will be using it for and they advised me what gas was best, if that makes sense, sorry for not making it clearer. Just noticed i stated Argon instead of Argon 5

 

[GrahamGKD]

Not sure what the problem could be then Graham - can you ask the mate who taught you to weld to take a look?
Graham.

 

[backpurge]

Graham
Would have thought Argon 5 is pretty much the same as Argoshield Light (maybe without the oxygen)

Straight CO2 will produce a hotter more deeply penetrating weld than an argon mix, so, when you change to a mix you will need to alter your settings to compensate, start by either backing off on the wire feed speed or increase the power (as you did do), you might need to up the juice more than you did. It's just a matter of playing around with the settings, don't be shy you won't break owt, don't have your gas flow too high either, it's a waste and causes more problems than it solves

Once you get it running right you will find it is a lot smoother than with CO2, you should get a sort of rapid crackling noise, almost like material being ripped, and the spatter should be very fine, small sparks that don't stick to anything

 

[hundred]

Graham
Would have thought Argon 5 is pretty much the same as Argoshield Light (maybe without the oxygen)

Straight CO2 will produce a hotter more deeply penetrating weld than an argon mix, so, when you change to a mix you will need to alter your settings to compensate, start by either backing off on the wire feed speed or increase the power (as you did do), you might need to up the juice more than you did. It's just a matter of playing around with the settings, don't be shy you won't break owt, don't have your gas flow too high either, it's a waste and causes more problems than it solves

Once you get it running right you will find it is a lot smoother than with CO2, you should get a sort of rapid crackling noise, almost like material being ripped, and the spatter should be very fine, small sparks that don't stick to anything

Thanks for the advice, i will have a go this afternoon, the only thing is that the amount i can turn it up as it blows the fuse in the garage if i use the higher settings, i may have to run an extension from the kitchen as a last resort.

 

[Sparkey]

Yes, some good advice there from backpurge!
Don't be afraid to have a play with the settings, i'm a professional welder and i even fiddle my settings still!
Offcourse i know what setting to use for all of the different parts i have to weld but sometimes it changes....for example if i can't stay focussed, or am tired, i know that my travelspeed will be lower than usual sooo i have to change my settings a bit!
So get yourself some scrap and play with the settings for a while untill you'll find "the frying bacon sound"!

Is that a disposable bottle you're using? i'm afraid they don't last very long...

 

[backpurge]

the only thing is that the amount i can turn it up as it blows the fuse in the garage if i use the higher settings, i may have to run an extension from the kitchen as a last resort.

Can you swap the circuit breaker in your garage fuse box to 16 amp, it's well worth it and should cope with most stuff you will be having a go at

 

[backpurge]

i'm a professional welder and i even fiddle (

Don't we all Sparks, dont we all ?

 

[rikrobson]

I was under the impression that you used lower settings with argon mix than CO2. the CO2 cooling the weld

I would certainly expect to use the lowest setting when welding cars/ thin material.

Try power setting 1 and turning up the wire speed. What size of wire are you using? 0.6 will need a faster feed than 0.8

 

[backpurge]

I was under the impression that you used lower settings with argon mix than CO2. the CO2 cooling the weld

I would certainly expect to use the lowest setting when welding cars/ thin material.

Try power setting 1 and turning up the wire speed. What size of wire are you using? 0.6 will need a faster feed than 0.8

CO2 produces a hotter weldpool with deeper penetration and more spatter than argon, that is why you use between 2 and 5% CO2 mixes for sheetmetal work and 20% CO2 mixes on thicker material

 

[hundred]

Yes, some good advice there from backpurge!
Don't be afraid to have a play with the settings, i'm a professional welder and i even fiddle my settings still!
Offcourse i know what setting to use for all of the different parts i have to weld but sometimes it changes....for example if i can't stay focussed, or am tired, i know that my travelspeed will be lower than usual sooo i have to change my settings a bit!
So get yourself some scrap and play with the settings for a while untill you'll find "the frying bacon sound"!

Is that a disposable bottle you're using? i'm afraid they don't last very long...

No its a small refillable bottle about 3' tall, thanks for the advice

 

[hundred]

Can you swap the circuit breaker in your garage fuse box to 16 amp, it's well worth it and should cope with most stuff you will be having a go at

The sparky at work advised against that as the main feed wire to my garage is 20 amp max and i have other stuff like the lights being run in there. Even on lower settings I have to unplug the freezer to allow me to weld, unfortunately, I forgot to plug it back in once - the missus gave me a right bo*****ing

 

[madkayaker]

sounds like it time for a new garage feed!

 

[Sparkey]

Don't we all Sparks, dont we all ?

Hey! don't fiddle my posts!

 

[Stree]

Well as a new user who has not even done a weld yet, first thing that occurs to me is that I have just bought a bottle of Argon5 and then a regulator from Weldequip. Now when it came to buying the reg, there were 2 distinct choices, either a CO2 regulator OR an Argon/mix regulator, so if you were using a C)2 reg when you were welding with CO2, and you swapped the bottle for Argon5, did you use the same regulator or did you get an Argo/mix regulator?
As I say I am new to this so might be a daft way to look at it, but curious to know the right way to go about this.

 

[shenion]

The only difference between the two regulators is the fitting for the bottle is different.

 

[Stree]

Thanks shenion, now I know !