Garden irrigation: would you risk fitting a motorised valve in an outdoor cabinet?

[Gareth J]

Could be, it may even be a local term

Well, it's certainly interesting sounding but I can't make head nor tail of it. I'm not questioning the effect you know or you experience but if it is a local term, wonder what it actually refers to.

Only things I can see regarding "aggressive water" are pH and normally dissolved CO2 related.

Corrosion of brass via dissolved oxygen is noted here;

https://analyticalsciencejournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/sia.1278

But it's suggesting the copper, not zinc in the brass is more the problem.
More here;
https://www.researchgate.net/figure...xygen-concentrations-in-copper_fig4_282736107

Any more clues as to what process it is you're referring to?

 

[mike os]

I would think 24v solenoids would be a good bet

 

[DAPPH]

Irelevant to my post. Rain water is free from supplier or government taxes. Volume to flush the loo is not something to really worry about if sufficient rainfall can be collected - and if it’s not, the roof tank can be topped up from the mains supply - just like any gravity fed dystem would be now.

Common house brick(s) could be used to reduce the effective volume of the cistern, if deemed necessary (an alternative may be adjusting the ball valve control height, depent on the shape of the cistern.

I was thinking of the small savings in electricity possible by not pumping rainwater up to a gravity tank in the roof void .

 

[DAPPH]

Use a hand pump, if you really want to go ‘lectric-free?

Surely it would depend on whether the collected water was above or below the storage tank for the loo. Obviously a ground-floor loo could be advantagious over a top-floor one.

Savings are tiny (for pumping water, at a few metres head), so compared to mains supplied potable water that leccy can be ignored. Running the pump on solar power has up-front cost, but running costs are then zero. Horses for courses. Choose and design the system appropriately. Reducing cistern capacity is a different factor in the design of the whole system.

I used to know ( pre covid...he dead now ) a guy up in the borders who had a permanent spring coming of a hill shelf that he fitted up a hydraulic water pump arrangement to . 24/7 it clicked away squirting out about three egg cups of pumped water on each stroke up some 22 feet to a long small header tank in the roof void to supply his cottage with fresh potable water . He found the pump on You & took four attempts to get it right , installed & working .

 

[Gareth J]

Likely water derived from peaty supplies 9 through peat bogs), where the pH can be quite low.

Absolutely, that's my experience with our well supply, not excessively, but significantly acidic. There's a bit of peat in the field. Causes problems if the pH adjustment gets neglected. @Kayos was referring to something else though, something mysterious involving dissolved oxygen. Can't find any more details about it though

 

[Kayos]

Absolutely, that's my experience with our well supply, not excessively, but significantly acidic. There's a bit of peat in the field. Causes problems if the pH adjustment gets neglected. @Kayos was referring to something else though, something mysterious involving dissolved oxygen. Can't find any more details about it though

I'm sorry but I'm completely bored of this

In my old office I had a collection of 4" brass valves, fitted to a fresh water supply. All of which had worn through in under 12 months.

In my line of work (plumbing and heating) aggressive water and dezincification are common terms, all to do with dissolved oxygen and the well known effects it has on brass fittings under certain conditions

I'm sorry you can't verify it with Google, in fact I'm not sorry but if I could impart 22 years of experience I would, but I can't

Bottom line, brass valves installed on fresh water cost my company thousands, we identified the issue and it's what I posted previously

This will be my last reply on the subject, this thread has become typical of this forum where there is a refusal to believe what someone with knowledge and first hand experience of the subject posts

 

[8ob]

 

[My Old Landy]

Cheered me up no end Bob

 

[Richiew]

I won’t go into too much detail, here.

You never do. Nearly 900 posts and not one photo of anything you've ever done.

 

[Mikes]

Likely water derived from peaty supplies 9 through peat bogs), where the pH can be quite low.

There is special requirements for water services running through ground containing coal / coal waste etc. Can't remember the name of it but there is a specialised barrier pipe to protect the water from the hydrocarbons leaching into it. Normal MDPE won't do but can't remember if this also applies to copper.

 

[Mikes]

Philip, Whatever equipment you opt for, it must be WRAS (Water regulations Advisory Scheme) approved. You also need to ensure that the install meets the byelaws (suspect that you will be a Thames Water customer) and they are very strict. Your best bet would be to ask their advice which they should give. They will be particularly concerned with the length of any dead-leg formed by your new installation. From experience, they will want an absolute minimum between the tee off the water pipework and the isolating valve to the irrigation which will probably preclude you having the valves outside. The check valve will probably need to be of the double variety with verification (the little screw between the two valves). They might however tell you that they won't permit direct irrigation supplies from the mains and you need to take it through a break tank and booster. The byelaws have changed a lot in recent years so worth checking.

 

[Gareth J]

I'm sorry but I'm completely bored of this

In my old office I had a collection of 4" brass valves, fitted to a fresh water supply. All of which had worn through in under 12 months.

In my line of work (plumbing and heating) aggressive water and dezincification are common terms, all to do with dissolved oxygen and the well known effects it has on brass fittings under certain conditions

I'm sorry you can't verify it with Google, in fact I'm not sorry but if I could impart 22 years of experience I would, but I can't

Bottom line, brass valves installed on fresh water cost my company thousands, we identified the issue and it's what I posted previously

This will be my last reply on the subject, this thread has become typical of this forum where there is a refusal to believe what someone with knowledge and first hand experience of the subject posts

You misread my curiosity as questioning your experience/expertise. Am disappointed you don't have the resources to educate further but understand.

Edit;
This is close to what you are describing I think;

Dezincification - AMPP

www.ampp.org

I'm not trying to prove/disprove you, I'm trying to understand the issue more so that if it's an issue for us, I'll know it when I see it or, even better, be able to prevent it happening if required.

 

[DAPPH]

Philip, Whatever equipment you opt for, it must be WRAS (Water regulations Advisory Scheme) approved. You also need to ensure that the install meets the byelaws (suspect that you will be a Thames Water customer) and they are very strict. Your best bet would be to ask their advice which they should give. They will be particularly concerned with the length of any dead-leg formed by your new installation. From experience, they will want an absolute minimum between the tee off the water pipework and the isolating valve to the irrigation which will probably preclude you having the valves outside. The check valve will probably need to be of the double variety with verification (the little screw between the two valves). They might however tell you that they won't permit direct irrigation supplies from the mains and you need to take it through a break tank and booster. The byelaws have changed a lot in recent years so worth checking.

Like as not they will require a water licence & new meter too as well a charging you the earth for more than average water use . You'll still be legally caught by drought regulations too so won't be allowed to use water for garden watering or car washing etc. if there is a water usage restriction in place .

 

[Richiew]

Words are cheap and frequently Googled. It feels like deja vu all over again round here.

 

[My Old Landy]

Words are cheap and frequently Googled. It feels like deja vu all over again round here.

Remember metal melt

 

[Richiew]

And his previous alter ego.