Fronious 2200 stainless steel

[Lorch T300]

Hi, Does anyone use a Fronius Transteel 2200 to weld stainless steel tube? I can't find a good synergic setting whatever I do, When I have the correct voltage, the wire speed is too high, as it is in synergic mode, and I can't turn the ws down. When I have the welder set in manual mode, I have a setting which works, but could be better. It is very frustrating, The odd time I weld mild steel and it welds very well indeed. As I weld stainless exhaust tube, I set off welding down hand then vertical then overhead. When I had a transformer mig welder I set it up and never touched the settings, I wish I still had it! Do I have a machine with a fault? As it is supposed to automatically match the ws to the volts, It doesn't. Any help or advice would be appreciated. I have been looking at a Lorch M-Pro 252 transformer mig welder, does anybody use one on here? Cheers Dave

 

[oilcooled :)]

If it’s welding well in mild steel, it’s probably the driver, if your not happy with the stainless synergic settings write them down and turn it into manual and put in the volts and wire speed you wrote down and keep adjusting them slightly till you get it right. In synergic have you the right diameter wire for selected setting. Is the polarity right?

 

[Hitch]

Is it the correct gas composition for the programme?

 

[Lorch T300]

If it’s welding well in mild steel, it’s probably the driver, if your not happy with the stainless synergic settings write them down and turn it into manual and put in the volts and wire speed you wrote down and keep adjusting them slightly till you get it right. In synergic have you the right diameter wire for selected setting. Is the polarity right?

I tried using it in manual mode, but I can't just get it dialled in. Maybe I am too old and used to transformer welders! The algorithm can't be right, The wire speed needs to be in the 7's ms in synergic it is in the 9's, which is way too high. Thanks anyway

 

[Lorch T300]

Is it the correct gas composition for the programme?

Yes, 98-2

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Some pics would help. What wire and material are you welding. I don't have the 2200, I have the older TPS270 and also the TPS 320I's. I can say that I have never been able to weld S/S so that it looks good, but with the latest TPS320i I would give myself a job. Still a little fiddley but good enough.

 

[Lorch T300]

Some pics would help. What wire and material are you welding. I don't have the 2200, I have the older TPS270 and also the TPS 320I's. I can say that I have never been able to weld S/S so that it looks good, but with the latest TPS320i I would give myself a job. Still a little fiddley but good enough.

I sent the welder back to Fronious Milton-Keynes, a few months ago as it is still under warranty, They claim It is perfect. I recently was given a setting to try, 2nd picture, I knew It would be no good, As it wants to be around 10.5 ws and 20.5 Volts, As you can see, It is way too cold, used 1st picture settings just to prove a point to Fronious, still too cold. I sent them the pictures but never got a reply. As I only weld ss 2mm wall tube, I really need a good transformer welder, I set off 20 years ago with a £400 set, It would out weld the Fronius on ss all day long. For some reason, synergic machines are no good for my particular application, I have tried a Lincoln and the best of the bunch was a Kemppi. I have been looking at a Helvi or a Lorch, both transformer machines. Not sure which would be best. The annoying thing is, The odd time I have welded ms, It welds extremely well indeed. It looks like I will put this up for sale and try and pick between the Helvi or the Lorch.

 

[tom2207]

would tig not be worthy of a look , that trans would cover the cost of a nice dc tig with pulse and then some , again depending on your application .

 

[Lorch T300]

would tig not be worthy of a look , that trans would cover the cost of a nice dc tig with pulse and then some , again depending on your application .

I have a Miller Dynasty 280, amazing machine

 

[henry Kadzielski]

Yes I can see the very convex weld bead that you have gotten. Very typical of mig, however some of the results you are getting is down to technique and other is machine setup. Now I have had several machines, all claiming to do S/S and no matter what I tried I got what you are getting. I did get a demo from a Kemppi supplier many years ago and the results were brilliant, only thing that held me back at that time was I had to use their wire and gas. I wasn't doing any stainless mig at the time (all stainless was tig) so couldn't justify the cost. Fast forward several years, I already had a TPS320i for alloy (long story in some previous posts) and had a S/S water tank for a steam loco to build, so looked into some softwares for the TPS320i to make it easier to weld the S/S with no or little post finishing. An ex demo machine become available with all the bells and whistles so I got it.

You can't see it that clearly, but all this was welded with the mig. The right hand side with 309 wire to the steel hull plating where the painted section is. The top part is better as the paint off the steel hull plating was removed correctly, lower section not so.

Again hard to see, but the welds are clean, shiny and mitered with good wetting of the toes, this is what I believe you are after. Could I get this result from the transteel 2200, Don't know as I don't have one. Is it possible to get a better result than what you are getting, YES. There is much difference between the 2200 and the 320i, but you results can be improved much. It will take a bit of fiddling, but it is doable.
It is no supprise that Fronius said there is nothing wrong with the machine and it is operating as they expect correctly, this is why I believe your problem is two fold. There are welding engineer at Fronius and the support should be much better than what it is here in AU. Even the sales people that do the demos here will set the machine for you to get it to do what you want. If they can't you won't buy the machine.
When I was looking for a machine the local (not so local) sales demo guy turned up and proceeded to start a demo. I told him to stop and I asked him to show me a vertical up on 6mm 5083 outside corner. He told me, no problem, changed some settings, welded, changes some more settings and presto vertical up on outside corner with 6mm 5083. I then had a go and I would have giver myself a job. He then asked anything else, I said similar on 3mm S/S. He didn't have the gas no I so suggested I come to their HQ and he would show me, which he did.
The amount of money these things cost, that backup is exactly what you would expect and nothing less, otherwise you could go to another supplier and get a machine from them.
Did you get a demo of what you wanted to weld before buying the machine? If yes then the settings should have been saved on that machine as a job. If no then go back with it and get them to play in front of you, to show you that it can be done and how they are achieving it. There will be someone there that is capable of adjusting that machine to get it to do what you want, press that point, don't take no as an answer. Remember there are many machines out there that will give you what you want. Lorch, EWM are two that come to mind. There have been posts on here of both welded results in S/S. I like the Fronius, it does what it says on the box and have had better support that EWM here in AU, can't say anything about Lorch.

 

[oilcooled :)]

Put it in manual and turn back your wire to round the 4 mark, your on the hunt for a manual welder id be very surprised that you wouldn’t get that going a bit better than that, I wouldn’t even be messing with synergic for that if it’s more or less the one type of work you’re at. You should have no problem dialling that it and writing down a couple of settings and saving them as easy jobs if you want. I was always under the impression synergic is more for putting untrained people mig welding that it leaves the welder easier set, or for lads with loads of different scopes of work that saves them time dialling it in.

 

[tom2207]

I have a Miller Dynasty 280, amazing machine

they do a nice mig too , I think its a rebranded Cemont from memory.
I looked at transsteels and didnt buy one as they seem to run on too much of their own consumables and own torch etc , but all the you tube videos look great , some folk just dont match with some machines . I drop in on a fab company and they have a big cemont thats usually only used by me , but I swear it gets grumpy if others use it when Im not there ,,, it wont weld nice for an hour and then it settles down again , and its a big old transformer machine with no brain to learn operator styles etc ...
heres a thought have you done a factory reset on the Fronius incase its learned some bad habits , sort of start again from fresh ??

 

[Lorch T300]

Put it in manual and turn back your wire to round the 4 mark, your on the hunt for a manual welder id be very surprised that you wouldn’t get that going a bit better than that, I wouldn’t even be messing with synergic for that if it’s more or less the one type of work you’re at. You should have no problem dialling that it and writing down a couple of settings and saving them as easy jobs if you want. I was always under the impression synergic is more for putting untrained people mig welding that it leaves the welder easier set, or for lads with loads of different scopes of work that saves them time dialling it in.

I tried the manual mode, As stated above, ws around 10 v 20.5, Fronius UK tell me this is way too high for my application, Funny how the settings the gave me are so far off it isn't funny. I will think about selling, It still has a few months warranty left on it, It is amazing on mild steel, Just for fun, I am going to set up my old Cebora I have in another building, nearly thirty years old, I know It welds better than the Fronious on ss. If anyone asks why I didn't use it in the beginning, I need a flex neck on my torch, At the time, nobody made an adapter for the Cebora to take a modern torch, but they do now. It has one fitted. I have used It the odd time as I have a pit in the building where the welder is, Sometimes I can't get certain vehicles on my lift, So I use the pit and the Cebora, so I don't have to move welders around the yard

 

[Lorch T300]

they do a nice mig too , I think its a rebranded Cemont from memory.
I looked at transsteels and didnt buy one as they seem to run on too much of their own consumables and own torch etc , but all the you tube videos look great , some folk just dont match with some machines . I drop in on a fab company and they have a big cemont thats usually only used by me , but I swear it gets grumpy if others use it when Im not there ,,, it wont weld nice for an hour and then it settles down again , and its a big old transformer machine with no brain to learn operator styles etc ...
heres a thought have you done a factory reset on the Fronius incase its learned some bad habits , sort of start again from fresh ??

Tried the factory reset, Just the same, The brain has too much ws dialed in for ss, I got into a hidden menu which allows the alc to be enabled, This is supposed to let you alter the was when in synergic mode, It didn't, Up for sale shortly. You are absolutley right, No brain, I am looking a a Helvi machine, power and ws only, Half the price of a new Fronious as it happens, Should be just the job.

 

[tom2207]

Tried the factory reset, Just the same, The brain has too much ws dialed in for ss, I got into a hidden menu which allows the alc to be enabled, This is supposed to let you alter the was when in synergic mode, It didn't, Up for sale shortly. You are absolutley right, No brain, I am looking a a Helvi machine, power and ws only, Half the price of a new Fronious as it happens, Should be just the job.

well you have certainly given it a go ,,,,

 

[Jan-DIY]

Looks a way to cold.
Is it really 0.8mm?

 

[Lorch T300]

Looks a way to cold.
Is it really 0.8mm?

Totally agree. The Fronius algorithm is way off, Yes 0.8, mm ss wire. Have booked a test on Friday with a company to try a Lorch transformer mig

 

[tom2207]

Totally agree. The Fronius algorithm is way off, Yes 0.8, mm ss wire. Have booked a test on Friday with a company to try a Lorch transformer mig

how did that go ??

 

[Lorch T300]

how did that go ??

Very well. The Lorch Is very smooth and does what it is supposed to. So I bought one. I haven't needed to do much mig welding this week and I am very happy with it £1800 inc VAT. The Fronius will be put up for sale. It Is great for mild steel. Maybe ask £750 for It. It has a Binzel MB15 torch fitted with flex a neck.

 

[tom2207]

Very well. The Lorch Is very smooth and does what it is supposed to. So I bought one. I haven't needed to do much mig welding this week and I am very happy with it £1800 inc VAT. The Fronius will be put up for sale. It Is great for mild steel. Maybe ask £750 for It. It has a Binzel MB15 torch fitted with flex a neck.

you put it up for sale and Ill buy it no probs , as per forum rules etc ... and what suits you .

Good to hear you got the issue resolved , wonder what made the difference though.