Free energy water pumps

[Baloo]

ok this goes against the grain that you can get something for nothing, we all know you can syphon water out of a barrel with a short length of hose if the water level in the barrel is higher than the end of the hose, but these video's seem to suggest that you can do it the other way round too ie suck water up from out of a well, this vid shows it in action as he uses a clear top to the barrel

there are hundreds of vids on youtube showing the same idea using bigger barrels usually 200lt oil drums sometimes as many as 3 drums to get a good flow going

so the first question is it real ??

 

[Baloo]

and another with a bigger drum

 

[Baloo]

if this was real and you scaled it up so as the suction and discharge pipe were say 4" dia and you mounted the drum 10' off the floor you could then biuld an old style mill waterwheel about 8' in diameter that just turned a car alternator that kept the batteries for the solar system topped up on rainy days , i guess it cant work or every body would have one in the garden lol

 

[gaz1]

yes that would work as long as the end didnt let air in it it would suck water up the pipe using gravity then become self feeding

used to do it all the time with emersion heaters and cold water tanks in loft well you have to drain them some how

 

[Munkul]

It's a lie, you cannot cheat the laws of thermodynamics!
It works when the inlet (source) is higher than the outlet, because the total amount of gravitational potential energy available is higher than you're using.

Sucking water up a well like that won't work, as the potential in the barrel height is less than the potential in the well. Unless the level of the well is higher than the level of the bottom of the barrel... it will not and can not work.

Remember youtube is full of videos where people somehow persuade fish to swim into pipes for them to be caught.... trickery and lies

 

[gaz1]

you have to have a lot of suction on that pipe for the water to be sucked up the pipe in the first place

yes it will suck it up the pipe due to the released water end

many of us have used suction on certain stuff including syphoning fuel out of tanks of cars and also with water tanks and then into our own tanks as long as it gets past the head with water it will self feed

and that system has alot of suction due to the water release in the barrel

 

[Baloo]

i cant decide if it will work or not, so i will repurpose an lpg tank and try it

 

[gaz1]

its all about getting it past the head of the pipe just make sure that head of the pipe dosnt collapse otherwise it wont suck

the pull of gravity and the pull of the barrel is where the issue starts but the pull on the barrel must be higher than the pull on the water up the tube in this case hose pipe

what you dont see i suspect is more water being added to the barrel just to keep it topped up until the flow gets past the head once it does it will still suck all it wants

you should try it from water tanks or emersion heaters in the house with long 30 ft hoses to the outside and suck on that end to drain them tanks theres no way im carrying a full tank through the house to the outside as there heavy and prone to crack with dirty black water in them from the sludge inside of them

 

[Fred Trevvett]

The whole principle of siphoning is that the outlet is lower than the inlet, regardless of what happens in between. If the inlet is lower it can't work surely??

 

[Baloo]

There is a non return valve on the bottom of the inlet pipe and you fill the pipe before you open the out let so it is already primed

 

[Screwdriver]

LOL. That's quite clever but complete nonsense. The trick is of course the relative flow rate. What you are seeing is yes, if you empty a bucket of water from the bottom, water will flow out. All you have to do is make sure the feed hose is a much smaller diameter than the outlet.

Water flows out at a higher rate than it flows in. Looks like about 4 litres per minute flowing out of the reservoir but you can't see how slowly the tank is being refilled by drawing water up from the much smaller inlet. What shall we say? 1 litre per minute? The lifted column of water from the well represents the "weight" of the water being "sucked up" i.e. the head and is considerably less massive.

Where does the energy come from? From the chap filling up the reservoir to begin with...

 

[Seadog]

Weight is exactly the right term. The system can be simplified and represented by a pair of scales.

 

[Screwdriver]

Weight is exactly tge right term. The system can be simplified and represented by a pair of scales.

Yeah. The only perpetual motion here is from the bloke topping it up....

 

[Maker]

I haven't watched the video but reading the replies, it sounds like it's a Heron's fountain (Or something similar)?

Definitely isn't magic whatever it is.

 

[Baloo]

i was of the opinion it was a hoax.......
at first lol, then it was explained to me like this

when its primed you have a full sealed system with no air in it, when you open the valve the water rushes out creating a vaccum in the top half of the drum, you then have 1 bar of air pressure pressing down all over the surface of the water in the well which pushes it up the pipe and into the vacuum since 14 lbs is considerably more than a vacuum, all sounded very believable lol
i will biuld one next week and see what happens do we want to take bets on will it or wont

 

[Maker]

i was of the opinion it was a hoax.......
at first lol, then it was explained to me like this View attachment 346076

when its primed you have a full sealed system with no air in it, when you open the valve the water rushes out creating a vaccum in the top half of the drum, you then have 1 bar of air pressure pressing down all over the surface of the water in the well which pushes it up the pipe and into the vacuum since 14 lbs is considerably more than a vacuum, all sounded very believable lol
i will biuld one next week and see what happens do we want to take bets on will it or wont

That same one bar atmosphere is pressing against the outlet of your vacuum chamber, so nothing will flow.

 

[aesmith]

Just looking at the second picture, the vacuum at the top of the tank will also be trying to pull air in from the outlet, and will do that much easier than lifting water from the well. If you put some dimensions we could come up with actual figures. I think in reality what would happen is water would stop flowing from the outlet.

 

[Screwdriver]

So this does raise some non-intuitive issues which is why I suggest the scam video is so "clever". It does rely on a certain degree of knowledge in physics to spot the trick.

Just looking at the diagram for example there are two assumption being made you have not fully explored. Firstly lets say you've dipped your hose into an ocean of water, so vast we need not worry about its surface area. The implication in your diagram (the "intuitive" part) is that 14.6 lbs is pushing down on a very large area and therefore pushing water up the pipe. There may be some semantic wiggle room there but in fact what you are saying (and tbf actually do say) is that you are lifting a head of water from that ocean against gravity not air! (interestingly). If you filled the pipe with sand from the desert, you could do the same thought experiment in a vacuum.

It is the weight of the water in the feed pipe you are lifting, nothing to do with air pressure except at a certain point (about 33 feet) there is so much weight pulling on the column of water, it rips the water apart, boiling it forming a water vapour above the sealed pipe. The only thing the stopping the water just falling out of the pipe is the atmospheric pressure within which the entire system is encapsulated. Go any higher and you just get more water vapour above the 33 odd feet we're allowed under earths "normal" temp/pressure.

Secondly you have not considered exactly what happens with your system when the tap turns on. Your outlet is now also exposed to 1 bar of pressure which you might think of (in these unusual circumstances) as if there is a gigantic "bubble" "under water". so when you open the tap, air will be desperate to get up that outlet while yes, the pressure imbalance will also draw some water up the feed.

What I suggest will happen is that bubbles will start filling your low pressure region forming above the reservoir by working their way up the outlet as water tries to flow out. That phenomena gives you the typical glug glug you get when trying to empty an unvented petrol can for example where you would deliberately angle the container to stop it from forming an hydraulic lock at the spout.

So what is the long term, equilibrium? Well while some water is being drawn up the feed pipe, increasing amounts of air will build up in the reservoir, spoiling the "vacuum" (lit. low pressure region). As the reservoir inevitably empties, more and more air goes up the outlet, less and less water can be drawn from the feed until with a massive burp, the last dregs of water flow out of the reservoir which has now dropped to atmospheric pressure and the column of water in the feed pipe collapses.

 

[Screwdriver]

...Oh, and if you do do it, don't forget to video it. Make it ASMR because I reckon it will at least make some interesting noises.

 

[Screwdriver]

...the vacuum at the top of the tank will also be trying to pull air in from the outlet, and will do that much easier than lifting water from the well.

Dammit. Well said. That does explain the situation quite nicely.

Not enough words for my tastes though.