Formula 1

[minimutly]

Much much worse than a hundreds of degrees fire - must be bad then...

 

[minimutly]

In a fuel (petrol) fire it is a very rapid fire in which the vapour is ignited, the heat then turns remaining fuel into vapour and this burns and is basically a small explosion as opposed to a fire.

If you ignite diesel its actually the diesel and not the vapour which burns which is why its atomised through diesel injectors in an engine, it burns much more slowly and more thoroughly.

With the battery packs you get issues, with Li-On cells they are prone to self combustion and this is through heat damage or a pack not particularly well constructed, if one cell overheats it can self combust and if any part is ruptured it can burn as well as damage the surrounding cells to the point they rupture and spontaneously combust and this is a major issue with battery vehicles as they combust and don't need oxygen or anything else; race cars are in open air and have lots of oxygen and to stop combustion you remove the fuel or oxygen, or cool it down to the point it won't combust. For traditional fuels you only need remove the fuel or oxygen and heat then the fires out, and various types of fire extinguisher exist and each has its own positives and negatives.

In a lithium cell fire you cannot extinguish it without some very specialised and expensive equipment so once they combust thats it, put water on them and it accelerates the combustion and makes it worse. Lithium ion cells are built on giid matrices and this is how they connect individual cells together to make a block, they then connect numerous blocks together to make a complete battery pack; currently they are looking at altering the grid matrices from plain strap to tubular matrices so they can pump coolant through them and a radiator to prevent individual cell overheating during rapid charging and discharging cycles to prevent overheating and spontaneous combustion, and this is why I raised the issue.

In an F1 car they use hybrid technologies and lithium ion cells and this is why I raised the point, we know his car was torn in half so did this damage the cells, and did the heat from the fire damage his cells?

If you look on You Tube they have actual videos of electric car self combustion and on Top Gear there is a video of Richard Hammond losing control of an electric car and this going off the cliff, he walked away but the electric car self combusted.

This is a bit moot point - the fire was instant - a petrol spill explosion, it didn't need help from batteries, which to my mind looked like they didn't get involved in the action, luckily.

 

[minimutly]

I always follow Hamilton, Russell, Albon and Grosjean. Lando not so much.
Hamilton came from working class background, Lando's father is one of the richest men in the UK. Albon's mum, fraud. I don't know about Russell.
I don't care what they do off the track. I never watch any of the race preamble. I start watching at 9 minutes past 2, stop when they cross the finish line.

Why "follow" anyone? And while I believe LH is the best driver in F1 by a big margin at the moment, Grosjean, who was the luckiest driver in F1 by an equally big margin, is also the worst. So why follow him?

 

[Parm]

Much much worse than a hundreds of degrees fire - must be bad then...

most of the rubber seals are pretty high tech. After an intense fire they leave HF residue. Everyone can see the fire and usually takes precautions. Can’t see HF, so when you touch contaminated parts sometime after the fire It’s eats through your flesh and keeps going. HF has an affinity for the calcium in bone. Not a pretty way to loose part of your body

 

[minimutly]

most of the rubber seals are pretty high tech. After an intense fire they leave HF residue. Everyone can see the fire and usually takes precautions. Can’t see HF, so when you touch contaminated parts sometime after the fire It’s eats through your flesh and keeps going. HF has an affinity for the calcium in bone. Not a pretty way to loose part of your body

Agree, and understand - but worse than a fire? I think not.

 

[Parm]

Agree, and understand - but worse than a fire? I think not.

more folk have been injured by HF than fire in F1

 

[Parm]

And in the field of vehicle recovery after vehicles have been burned in accidents, or after thefts, particularly in the 90's.

the latest thing I’m aware of is all the charged pretension systems particularly in the pillars. Fire brigade aren’t to keen to just jump in and cut your car apart. Then there’s the batteries .......

 

[Greeves246]

Interestingly I used to watch a lot of NASCAR and CART, Indycar, where they use alcohol based fuel. Burns without a flame but a bucket of water kills it instantly. Refuelling stops , quick squirt with a hosepipe cleats any spillage. Fuel for thought? Groan

 

[bricol]

Burns without a flame but a bucket of water kills it instantly.

Hence initially wondering why a driver would leap out and roll around on the floor for no apparent reason . . .

 

[Bullet2012]

Little interview with George.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/3...4ZONW1QO5oBVV7l_wE1bUAJPza9fiaIWpoWvQ8CdDihKc

 

[ukracer]

Interesting times...but not sure what it tells us. We know the car IS the best car. And we knew George was good.

Strange really as it's going to give Mecedes a head ache as they have already signed Bottas for 2021.

 

[Melvyn Best]

Quick isn’t he? Interesting to see how he gets on in 2nd practice etc

 

[ukracer]

Quick isn’t he? Interesting to see how he gets on in 2nd practice etc

Without being disrespectful it's the best track to take over the fastest car as it's got fewer places for mistakes...but easy to leave a tenth or so on the table and loose 10 places.
Quali might tell us more but I am a little surprised how the car has taken him from last to first in just a few mins in the car...

 

[Roger440]

most of the rubber seals are pretty high tech. After an intense fire they leave HF residue. Everyone can see the fire and usually takes precautions. Can’t see HF, so when you touch contaminated parts sometime after the fire It’s eats through your flesh and keeps going. HF has an affinity for the calcium in bone. Not a pretty way to loose part of your body

The joy of viton seals, Once a reare thing but getting used much more in mundane stuff now.

As you say, once its on you, you really are in trouble........................

 

[Roger440]

Quick isn’t he? Interesting to see how he gets on in 2nd practice etc

If he out qualifies Bottas, that doesnt say much for Bottas! Sure will be interesting experiment. Such opportunities rarely come along.

 

[badabec]

Why "follow" anyone? And while I believe LH is the best driver in F1 by a big margin at the moment, Grosjean, who was the luckiest driver in F1 by an equally big margin, is also the worst. So why follow him?

Why do people follow football teams? Or any team or person in any sport. Or bands? Or authors?
My reasons are both Nationalistic and obscure. I follow the Brits, I follow Albon because he looks just like my 8 year old grandson and Grosjean because he is a bit of a wild card.

 

[minimutly]

Little interview with George.

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/3...4ZONW1QO5oBVV7l_wE1bUAJPza9fiaIWpoWvQ8CdDihKc

Here's bits of an interview with Roman - chilling reading


He described the moments inside the car as he realised there was a fire and was struggling to get out.

“After the shock, I open my eyes,” he said. “I take off my harness, I hit something that blocks me: I think it's the halo. I sit down and I tell myself that someone will come and help me. At this moment, I don't realise that there is fire.

"Then I look to the left: it's all orange; I find it weird. I understood then that there was fire because the plastic of my ‘tear off’ (visor) caught fire. I try to get out without succeeding.

"I have time to think that I will end up like Niki Lauda, burnt. I tell myself that it is not possible, that I cannot end like this. I tried straight ahead, then right. Every time, I'm stuck.

“I sit down again and there is a strange moment when I see death as near as you can see it. My body almost relaxes and tells itself it's over.

"I wondered which part was going to burn first, and if it was going to be my hand. I took 53G on my head so obviously I'm a little stunned.

“But then I pull like crazy because my left foot is stuck under the pedal. I tell myself that I haven't tried to slip on the other side yet.

"I put my hands in the fire, the gloves turn all black, I feel the pain, I know then that I am burning my hands. As the chest passes (the cockpit), it's deliverance. I know I'm going to live. I pass the barrier, I feel the doctor pulling on my suit. He says to me ‘Sit down’.

“The impact, frankly, is not that bad. Everyone thought I would have a concussion or a blackout. But nothing, I can hear [FIA Dr] Ian Roberts talking to me. I immediately thought of removing the gloves, which were melting.”

Grosjean added: "The survival instinct was the strongest - even after thinking that I was going to die, I had the lucidity to think about the movement to be made.

“I saw death too closely, it's a feeling that I don't wish on anyone. It will change my life forever. At that point, I wasn't scared, I wasn't annoyed but I didn't want it to end like this."

 

[Bullet2012]

Well done GR63
Going to be a tough day tomorrow

 

[Screwdriver]

So George Russell hey? HTF can anyone be that quick right off the bat?

He barely fits in the car for a start, jumps into Hamiltons car and is within 26milliseconds of Bottas! That's crazy. Shame he didn't quite get to pip him, apparently it is the first time ever (!) he hasn't beaten a teammate in an identical car. 36 straight "wins" against his nominal opponent but it literally doesn't get any closer. That's about one metre at 180mph (1.6m) though that is more likely a feature of such a short track, Max was only 30ms behind Russell.

Really looking forwards to today's race. They should kick Hamilton out more often...

 

[bricol]

Maybe not - from the guy just behind:

Asked whether Mercedes needed Hamilton, who is yet to agree a new contract for 2021 and beyond, Verstappen said: "Of course you do, because he will make the difference in the most crucial moments. That's why he is a seven-time world champion."