Forklift

[zzr1200]

also I find electric trucks have no delicate control unlike the hydraulics driven by an engine,

That because the motor switching hasn't been set up correctly.

 

[Hitch]

Had the problem even on brand new ones, especially when using them on slopes.

 

[Paul.]

Same here, Electric trucks alright for warehouses shifting pallets, for proper work like building & installing machinery, turning jobs over, and moving steel with precision, its gas or diesel every time.

 

[zzr1200]

Choices

1. Diesel> Jap> reasonably priced> reliable

2. Propane> less fumes> mostly converted car engines (cheap parts if engine type known).

3. Electric> great for warehouses in constant use, no good for a workshop where it may sit around for days, batteries can cost 2000+ quid to replace....

A word of warning some newer machines (diesel or electric) now require connecting up to laptops for fault finding/repair/servicing main dealer only (Linde for definate).

Sauer Danfoss are major players in drive motor/drive pumps/hydraulic pumps.

 

[snowcat]

We're playing with a CAT 414 handler at the mo. Much better proportional control than a JCB, but that little roller button for the fork tilt is a bit of a 'mare. Gently does it!

feck'in construction spec machines, in the civilized world the bucket crowed is where it should be, on the joy stick (left to right), lovely HSE makes it go else were on construction spec, grrrr......

mind LSU seems the latest fad, that i cant get the hang of......

 

[Hitch]

If you want easy repairs, something with a perkins or similar would be ideal id think.
Sthil, not overly impressed by them, used to have 2 or the, merc engines.Starting and drive motor problems on both.

 

[Rusty]

I had a diesel Komatsu and an old Gas Fenwick , the gas is clean and convenient you just have two bottles of gas , one on the truck and one for a spare and most gas company's deliver for free , better than having to chase down the garage when your diesel truck runs out of fuel halfway through unloading a truck maintenance is clean and easy on the gas as well , just spark plugs and filters the same as your car. I had the old Fenwick for ten years and it never missed a beat and it got some stick diesels are smelly Smokey oily b*gg**s to run.

 

[Poindexter888]

I've got a Toyota Diesel, had it for 2.5 years, bought used. I chose diesel because I had to have a forklift available all the time, but wasn't going to be using it all the time. I've only filled the fuel tank about 3 times, and didn't ant to be paying bottle rent for something that gets used so infrequently. And I've had no problems so far, with the machine or the fumes while running it in a factory unit; not all diesels belch smoke, just shop around for a clean example.

 

[piman]

Hello PD888,

there's no such thing as a clean Diesel, even if you can't see any smoke, but most seem to overfuel occasionally?

Alec

 

[Poindexter888]

There is no such thing as a clean petrol or propane (LPG) engine either mate, but you have to choose your poison. However, if it's diesel and I can't see or smell the fumes then it's probably clean enough.

 

[piman]

Hello PD888,

I understand that but LPG seems to be better. It's acceptable for our situation anyway where a Diesel would not be.

Alec

 

[Poindexter888]

I agree, lpg possibly is a little cleaner than diesel, although the same sized forklift will burn a lot fuel running lpg compared to diesel, which is why diesel cars are so popular nowadays, so presumably the diesel will put out less fumes than the lpg even if the fumes are easier to detect from the diesel. My point was that if Welderpaul has gotten by without a forklift till now then he might be in the same position that I was -ie needs a forklift but isn't going to be using it on daily basis, in which case a diesel will probably suit him better.

 

[Rusty]

I agree, lpg possibly is a little cleaner than diesel, although the same sized forklift will burn a lot fuel running lpg compared to diesel, which is why diesel cars are so popular nowadays, so presumably the diesel will put out less fumes than the lpg even if the fumes are easier to detect from the diesel. My point was that if Welderpaul has gotten by without a forklift till now then he might be in the same position that I was -ie needs a forklift but isn't going to be using it on daily basis, in which case a diesel will probably suit him better.

Just to follow on , LPG is half the price of Diesel over here and if you re - order your gas with a good supplier they wont charge a bottle rental.

 

[Paul.]

Don't use BOC for propane, use Calor or Shell,
The cylinders are specials by the way, as well as a different type of valve to a normal cylinder they have a siphon tube in them so that they can be used on their side.

 

[Robotstar5]

The cylinders are specials by the way, as well as a different type of valve to a normal cylinder they have a siphon tube in them so that they can be used on their side.

They also have an arrow telling which way to mount them - a concept our FLT drivers seem unable to grasp!

 

[Poindexter888]

Just to follow on , LPG is half the price of Diesel over here and if you re - order your gas with a good supplier they wont charge a bottle rental.

Yes, BUT, diesel engines use roughly 30% less fuel than their petrol counterparts (http://www.ibtimes.com/contents/20090410/diesel-vs-unleaded-truth-about-fuel-economy.htm), and LPG conversions usually use around 30% more fuel in the same time period/distance than a petrol engine (http://www.lpgautogas.com.au/index.cfm?Action=MyBusiness), which works out to be around 69% more LPG to do the same job as a comparitive diesel, so it is a little cheaper to use LPG in forklifts or any other vehicle. This also means 49.5% more exhaust fumes than diesel. However, if you aren't using your forklift very much then the supplier won't be making much money out of you for fuel, so the free cylinder rental may be out for a low use, single machine client.

I don't doubt that LPG makes sense for most forklifts, and the proof is in the dominance of LPG forklifts in industry. However, I still believe that for a low use machine diesel is the best option.

 

[Drains]

Poindexter, I like your analysis of exhaust fume output, but without trying to start an argument, do you suppose that the different compression ratios of diesel vs petrol engines ( let's say 20 to 1 and 8 to 1 respectively) might imply a greater air use, and therefore a greater exhaust output from a diesel?

Re Diesel forks - we had a brand new Stil forklift at work, which was hard to start, stank, and filled the air with a smoky fug. It took lots of phone calls, 2 months, and 3 visits from the Stil engineer to discover that the state of the art electronic and fly-by-wire controlled machine had the timing belt on wrong.

 

[English Steve]

We have three forklifts, 2tonne, 5tonne and 8tonne, all of which are diesel. We also run a diesel tractor as a tug for moving large trailers, a diesel powerpack for hydraulic testing and our emergency stand-by generator and compressor are both diesel. Most of the forklift use is outside, but there is no problem when they need to be used inside as the extraction in the buildings deals with it.
Red diesel is far more convenient for us than LPG as our factory heating also runs off the same fuel and we have relatively large tanks of the stuff on site at all times. Red diesel is also easier to obtain locally if we did happen to run out.

When there is a lot of weld fume around, a little diesel makes an insignificant difference IMHO - I wait to be shot down by the HSE Police for that remark

 

[Poindexter888]

Drains, I have taken into account the increased density of diesel vs petrol (15% greater). I haven't done the same with LPG vs anything, and appreciate that my calculations are very simple, but I would think that the amount of exhaust that is of concern here (not pure volume with uncombusted air and fuel) would be dependent on the amount of fuel burnt. If diesels produce THAT much nasty exhaust fumes then the Environmental movement would NOT favour them over petrol engines. I have conceded that LPG engines do burn cleaner, but the difference in fuel use/fume production is not as great as many people think.

As I said, small diesel forklifts IMH(?)O are best in circumstances where they will be parked up for most of the time, for situations where the forklift will be used for several hours each week then the fuel savings of LPG will eventually prove out.

And no argument sought, found, entered, implied or intended; this is healthy debate

 

[rtcosic]

If diesels produce THAT much nasty exhaust fumes then the Environmental movement would NOT favour them over petrol engines.
........
this is healthy debate

The informed elements of the "Environmental Movement" HATE compression ignition (diesel) engines!

They emit much more 'nasty exhaust fumes' than spark ignition (petrol/ethanol/methanol/LPG/CNG) engines.

Unlike the US and Japanese, EU emission standards for on-road SI engines are (currently) much more stringent than for CI engines, and meaningful emission standards for off-road vehicles (such as forklift trucks) are only coming in now. It will not be until 2010 and the introduction of Euro VI emissions standards that EU CI and SI emissions standards will be equal to each other.

CI engines can emit less CO2 (and HC and CO) - but only as long as they are allowed to be dirty and emit high levels of NOx and PM10.

CO2 is a Greenhouse Gas, but has no direct impact on air quality and human health, so is not a "pollutant" or "nasty fume". NOx and PM10 are the pollutants or nasty fumes which have a potentially high impact on local air quality and human health. CO and HC emissions are effectively zero for SI engines with even the most basic 1970's technology catalytic converters

This is a subject dear to my heart - I've been working in the 'clean fuels' arena for decades.

If we want to start a debate about on-road and off-road vehicle emissions and CI vs SI technology, we might want to start a whole new thread.