Ford 4000 engine

[SirDick Diodenob esquire]

I have a 1965 3 cylinder diesel Ford 4000 and am cleaning off decades of oily sludge from the top of the engine in an effort to find the glow plugs to see if fixing them will help it start a bit easier ( using easy start and a burning rag at the moment ) but I cant find them . The workshop manual has no reference to glow plugs and I am wondering if this engine was ever fitted with them ? The reason I think it may have glowplugs is that you can buy replacements for the 4000 engine on ebay but where are they on the engine , I do need glasses but my eyesight is not so bad that I would miss them , all I know is they are not on the cylinder head in the normal place , I have had diesel vehicles before this so I know what they look like .

 

[rtbcomp]

Does it use the Perkins method of an igniter in the air intake?

 

[SirDick Diodenob esquire]

Thanks , have just had a good look at the air inlet manifold and cant see anything attached to it or inside other than the two fuel filters underneath . The dashboard casing has an oil pressure light and dynamo light but no glow plug indicator light , theres no loose wiring either which would give a clue .

 

[awemawson]

I have a 1965 3 cylinder diesel Ford 4000 and am cleaning off decades of oily sludge from the top of the engine in an effort to find the glow plugs to see if fixing them will help it start a bit easier ( using easy start and a burning rag at the moment ) but I cant find them . The workshop manual has no reference to glow plugs and I am wondering if this engine was ever fitted with them ? The reason I think it may have glowplugs is that you can buy replacements for the 4000 engine on ebay but where are they on the engine , I do need glasses but my eyesight is not so bad that I would miss them , all I know is they are not on the cylinder head in the normal place , I have had diesel vehicles before this so I know what they look like .

No Glow plugs on a Ford 4000. My 1974 Ford 4000 has the usual Thermostart in the inlet manifold, fed from a small diesel reservoir in series with the injector spillage line back to the tank. You have to swing the battery out on it's holder to access the bits.

 

[SirDick Diodenob esquire]

I removed the battery and tray to get better access . The injector leak back pipes are connected in series as you would expect , at the left hand end is a pipe returning fuel to the main tank and the right hand end is a pipe to the injection pump , the pipes dont look as though they have ever been disturbed or modified but I suppose on something this old its difficult to tell , I think the pump is a CAV type .

 

[Engineer]

If you need to use easy start and a burning rag, its pretty likely the compression is low, and use of easy start on a regular basis will wash oil from the bores, and reduce compression even more.

 

[bill_gj]

This is an old tractor engine, isn't it?
I'm with rtbcomp on this. Glow plugs didnt really get popular until smaller diesels started going into less industrial and non-agricultural vehicles.
Prrior to that, starting was either down to cranking them until the charge air got hot enough to light the injected fuel, or they had flame start systems backed up with ether cannisters.

 

[SirDick Diodenob esquire]

If you need to use easy start and a burning rag, its pretty likely the compression is low, and use of easy start on a regular basis will wash oil from the bores, and reduce compression even more.

I agree easystart and the burning rag are not ideal but they are all I have at the moment , I was thinking about using a central heating pump and an immersion heater in a home made engine pre heater as once the engine is hot it starts fine. I dont have the money at the moment to do a rebuild on the engine and no doubt it is very well worn out but I knew that when I bought it but it does the job , my objective is to keep it going as long as possible without having to spend much on it . I am greatful for all the help so far but still wondering how this engine was meant to be started in the first place , did the 1965 models just start under their own compression without glow plugs or an ingiter in the inlet manifold as advised by Bill , this now seems to me the way its meant to be ?

 

[Howburn]

Ford 4000's did not have a glowplug/Thermostart from new, but you can easily fit one. On some inlet manifolds there is a plug that you can screw out and fit the Thermostart in its place. You pipe it up as other have said, I have never bothered fitting the small reservoir and it has worked OK. The thermostart plug is about £12, I can send you one if you like. I may also have a diagram explaining how best to do it, if you PM me your email address I will forward this too.

 

[SirDick Diodenob esquire]

Thanks Howburn , will have a look to see if its got a removable plug on the manifold .

 

[rtbcomp]

....., I was thinking about using a central heating pump and an immersion heater in a home made engine pre heater.......

If you're thinking of going along this route consider getting an old dishwasher, some models have a heating element built into a short bit of pipe and you might be able to use the drain pump to circulate the water.

 

[SirDick Diodenob esquire]

If you're thinking of going along this route consider getting an old dishwasher, some models have a heating element built into a short bit of pipe and you might be able to use the drain pump to circulate the water.

That would work well , never thought of that and we have a dishwasher that I was meant to repair but never got around to , and the tractor is more of a priority .

 

[Ducati]

I have a 1965 3 cylinder diesel Ford 4000 and am cleaning off decades of oily sludge from the top of the engine in an effort to find the glow plugs to see if fixing them will help it start a bit easier ( using easy start and a burning rag at the moment ) but I cant find them . The workshop manual has no reference to glow plugs and I am wondering if this engine was ever fitted with them ? The reason I think it may have glowplugs is that you can buy replacements for the 4000 engine on ebay but where are they on the engine , I do need glasses but my eyesight is not so bad that I would miss them , all I know is they are not on the cylinder head in the normal place , I have had diesel vehicles before this so I know what they look like .

I've never worked on one of these, though have worked on many variations of diesel engines, even TVO over the years.

When I get a mo I'll quiz a few of the old farmers up here.

A compression test would be a good starting point to see if there is sufficient compression pressure to raise the charge of air to the ignition point of the derv. though you will need a comp. tester for diesel engines.

The only ways of raising the temperature of the air are:

1) Cranking for sufficient time, I'm sure you are aware that excessive cranking time won't do the starter motor the world of good

2) Cranking with the use of a decompression valve to allow a higher cranking speed to be attained, any sign of one of these ?

3) Heater plugs in either the combustion chamber or inlet manifold, yours obviously hasn't these.

4) As previously mentioned a Thermostart in the inlet manifold.

5) Some old tractors and trucks were fitted with a system ( I think it was called Startpilot or similar) where there was a refillable container in the cab area containing a fluid similar to " Easystart" with a plunger arrangement, a couple of pumps whilst cranking did the job.

I am pretty sure the Thermostart is still available, fitting one to your manifold and providing the feed from the leak-off pipes should present no problems. I have fitted a few of these over the years for farmers and others to give old tired engines that were difficult to start, but OK when running, another lease of life

Any truck / tractor / diesel engine breakers around your way that may have a second hand one ? Be aware that they come in 12v and 24v flavours


Rather than the burning rag use a decent propane torch, heat up the inlet manifold itself for a min or two, then direct the flame into the manifold and crank, don't get the torch nozzle too close to the inlet or it will suck the flame out

I started many a vehicle up like this with faulty heater plugs when the temp. had suddenly dropped, as long as the manifold wasn't plastic

Hope this helps.

 

[Ducati]

Sorry if I have repeated what others have posted, it took me a while to type the last post and answer grandaughters questions

 

[oilcooled :)]

take off rocker top take out injectors get them reconded, when your there set tappets if you have been using easy start. injectors are hard got out, pry out type may need to make a pry tool

 

[SirDick Diodenob esquire]

1) Cranking for sufficient time, I'm sure you are aware that excessive cranking time won't do the starter motor the world of good

Yes have had the starter motor smoking a few times and also burned out a charger/booster so have rewired a Nu tool 100 amp mig set to see if thats any better , it was no good as a mig welder so no harm done if it goes the same way as my booster , not tried it out yet but will stand well back before switching on .

2) Cranking with the use of a decompression valve to allow a higher cranking speed to be attained, any sign of one of these ?

I will have a look but theres no mention of one in the manual .

3) Heater plugs in either the combustion chamber or inlet manifold, yours obviously hasn't these.

4) As previously mentioned a Thermostart in the inlet manifold.

May take up Howburns offer on this .

5) Some old tractors and trucks were fitted with a system ( I think it was called Startpilot or similar) where there was a refillable container in the cab area containing a fluid similar to " Easystart" with a plunger arrangement, a couple of pumps whilst cranking did the job.

I am pretty sure the Thermostart is still available, fitting one to your manifold and providing the feed from the leak-off pipes should present no problems. I have fitted a few of these over the years for farmers and others to give old tired engines that were difficult to start, but OK when running, another lease of life

Any truck / tractor / diesel engine breakers around your way that may have a second hand one ? Be aware that they come in 12v and 24v flavours

I am in Donegal , its a bit sparse here for getting hold of anything , usually means a long journey .

Rather than the burning rag use a decent propane torch, heat up the inlet manifold itself for a min or two, then direct the flame into the manifold and crank, don't get the torch nozzle too close to the inlet or it will suck the flame out

Will give this a try as well

I started many a vehicle up like this with faulty heater plugs when the temp. had suddenly dropped, as long as the manifold wasn't plastic

No problem its a metal casting

Hope this helps.

thanks for the advice

 

[gordon stephenson]

Is the engine maybe the type that does not have glow plugs, but in stead has a device that allows the injector pump to supply more fuel when starting,Some engines had a button on the injector pump and some had a cable pull in the cab just like a choke cable,It allowed the rack inside the pump to move to an over fuelling position.

 

[morph]

Run the same tractor as a scrapper tractor and it can be a bit slow to get started but will always run. Ours has NO cold starting help at all exept a good battery and even when it was -20 it went after 2 or 3 minutes of winding. How long does it take to start with a good battery? If you wind at it for 3 min atleast it should go- if not you must have lost compression....

 

[oilcooled :)]

im telling the injectors are shot, and its letting to much diesel into the combustion chamber and it makes it a devil to start. theres no switch on any 4000 pump that i seen. or else the engine is finito

 

[SirDick Diodenob esquire]

Gordon , there are two cables to the injector pump the hand throttle and the fuel shut off which is pulled out in the cab to stop the engine . I had a look for a button on the pump but nothing there .

Morph , My battery is not great so am needing extra amps on the starter , I am hoping I can get about 150amps out of the mig welder for a minute or more which added to what the battery can give should turn the engine over fast enough . The manual says the starter needs 250 to 300 amps on a warm engine but I think 2 to 3 minutes of winding the engine at that current could be more than the nu tool mig will stand , I was finding the starter smoking slightly after about 45 seconds and on a cold start it could take well over 300 amps .

Oilcooled , I may try fitting recon injectors if I can get someone local to test them as I think you can get a set for about £50 , will also try setting the tappets they have probably not been looked at for a long time judging by the muck on the engine and birds nest in the radiator cowling .