Fly press tooling, speed?

[KemppiFrog]

I recently made a notcher and tested it in the press frame with a 20tonne bottle jack. Used a thicker sheet than I expected to and it did wind up a bit before going with a bang.
Now it resides in my air driven 6 tonne press and cuts the notches in 1mm galv with a slight bang but instantly. I don't think speed has much to do with it. The only difference would be inertia in the reaction of the sheet and, in my case, this is not an issue.

To add: A fly press has accurate alignment for the top tooling. For my notcher, that was impractical, so the two parts of the tooling are hinged and the press just pushes on the top tool. That is why it works in the frame press as well as the air driven one.

 

[Rrunnach]

When I was an apprentice, the various fly press machines were equipped to be operated by a compressed air ram. From a faded memory, another down facing arm was welded close to original operational arm, with balls insitu.

Press of a pedal had fly press operating like a fiddlers elbow, most functions were punching and notching sheet.

 

[AdrianH]

This is the holder I have, had it for some years without me using it but it should fit the bill
after a clean-up.


And what tooling I have left, missing a lot of matching pieces so will have to have a dam good sort out and tidy up to see if I can find more.

I have matching sets with 8 and 12mm 3/16 and 5/16 inch

have a 4mm punch but can not find the die so will try the 3/16 instead.


Adrian

 

[AdrianH]

Not punching holes but had to be done!



Still playing.

Adrian

 

[Kent]

Still wondering why you ain't just drilled them?

 

[AdrianH]

Managed to have a few hours in the garage again and like others building presses etc, the issue seems to be springs to retract the ram etc when done. But anyway, made some stops so the punch does not bottom out and practised on 1.5mm and then 2 mm steel with out any issues, very little by way of any burrs. No distortion of the steel and very little travel in the ram once it had punched through.

It adds another tool to the arsenal.


Still playing.

Adrian

 

[AdrianH]

Simple update.

Got it painted a little while ago, I like Hammerite Blue for some reason.

Welded some bits of bar on the bottom for feet 80 x 6 I think, being flat means they do not trip me up as much when on the floor. Also did a bit on the lathe today putting a shoulder on the punch holder, so I now have a spring on the punch to release the metal, awaiting some springs for the jack and guide that will arrive probably around 6th or 7th.



The bottle jack is an old thing that has been sat around for at least 15 years that I can remember, think it may be replaced with a cheep ebay or similar 5Tonne one.

Adrian

 

[Wallace]

Looks good, have you measured for frame flex once the jack is fully loaded? The die set is a good size and addition, I have a smaller one to take a corner cropping tool for my flypress.

 

[AdrianH]

No but may do with 5 tonnes rather then 2.
Wondering if I could fit a gauge to the jack when I get one.

It is another may be useful toy/tool.

Adrian

 

[AdrianH]

A final update, will still try and improve on it as time goes on but for now:-

Adrian

 

[Screwdriver]

Still wondering why you ain't just drilled them?

Punching holes is a lot more fun. In fact, punching the hole is a lot easier than drilling thin sheet. There's no distortion whatsoever, hardly any burr and you don't have to aim for a centre punch (if you jig the workpiece). You would use a jig because typically the press is set up for production rather than just a one off.

Nice work Adrian :thumbsup:

Oh and if it holds a die you can call it a bolster.

S.

 

[Pete.]

I know that with a fly press one can use the momentum of the balls and speed acting on the feed screw and that gives the tonnage to punch through, but as I sold my fly press on, can I use the same tooling with a hydraulic jack that just relies on pressure, will it still work?

I appreciate one can bend steel with applying pressure slowly, and that slowness, can allow one to get the correct bend, but can one still punch through cleanly?

Adrian

Yes, watch an ironworker punch a hole in heavy plate. No speed involved, and seemingly no effort either even though there is plenty of it.

 

[AdrianH]

Looks good, have you measured for frame flex once the jack is fully loaded?

I did a sort of measurement the other day, still only have the 2 Tonne jack on there and if you see the pictures probably not the best way of measuring, but not sure what else to try. From unloaded to the max I could get from the jack at the point I was taking the measurement the needle moved left approx 10 thou on my dial gauge.

Not sure it means that much though.




Adrian

 

[Welderpaul]

That's quite good - i'd expect a lot more flex. Good test of your welds..

Our Geka has 110 tonnes of force, i was punching 30mm holes through 25mm plate - not even near to the limit and you can see the frame very obviously flexing....and that's made from 80mm plate

 

[Burdekin]

This sold on eBay a few days back for a bargain, was listed incorrectly: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/311526024914?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

 

[AdrianH]

Now come on Paul stop taking the P out of my little press, 2 Tonne compared to 110 Tonne like in the same category, not!

At 2 Tonne I would expect pigeon crap to hold it.

Adrian

p.s.

I must admit though I can pick this thing up and move it which is a lot better then the fly press I had.

 

[ukracer]

I recently made a notcher and tested it in the press frame with a 20tonne bottle jack. Used a thicker sheet than I expected to and it did wind up a bit before going with a bang.
Now it resides in my air driven 6 tonne press and cuts the notches in 1mm galv with a slight bang but instantly. I don't think speed has much to do with it. The only difference would be inertia in the reaction of the sheet and, in my case, this is not an issue.

To add: A fly press has accurate alignment for the top tooling. For my notcher, that was impractical, so the two parts of the tooling are hinged and the press just pushes on the top tool. That is why it works in the frame press as well as the air driven one.

I know it's an old thread but I don't suppose you have a photo or two of your notcher handy??

 

[KemppiFrog]

I know it's an old thread but I don't suppose you have a photo or two of your notcher handy??

Umm. I did do a thread on the air driven press with photos and talked about the notcher on another. Will dig a little..

 

[KemppiFrog]

Can't find the press thread, so will take a pic tomorrow of the notcher tooling. Been using it since then with no probs, quite pleased.
KF

 

[AdrianH]

@ukracer

What thickness are you trying to notch?

Adrian