First welds, penetration problems

[mowersman]

Hi, got my Clarke 151EN set up today and been having a play. I'll upload photos after dinner. Currently using gasless wire as thats all I have. Been having problems with penetration though. on 3A max, I simply cannot get it to blow through 3mm plate, I'm guessing there is probably a problem with the way I've got it set up. The polarity is correct for gasless. Any sugestions?
Thanks
Andrew

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

i dunno if you've looked clearly at the switches and stuff but on my 130en the switched read
to get access to 2 and 3 you have to have it in A
then again i know what youre like andrew!

A 2 MIN
[] [] []
1 3 MAX

 

[mowersman]

I know Will, I know... Hence why I typed in my initial post 3A max...

 

[Wozzaaah]

Can you post some decent photos of your welds? It will help us to see where you may be going wrong.

Wozz-mower-aaah.

 

[Country Joe]

I first read it and thought, "you won't burn through 3mm with a max of 3A"
Then I assumed you must have meant 30A, as they don't go down that low.
C-mower-J

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

he means the setting not 30 amps

 

[Country Joe]

Thanks, I realise that, now.
C-mower-J

 

[mowersman]

They don't look as bad in real life.

Andrew

 

[Country Joe]

It seems as if they get a bit better as you go along. The one that I'm guessing was first, even seems to have a bit of a "weave" going on!
I think I'd expect 130A to have a bit more effect on 3mm steel, but not that much more, not instantly vaporising it, though.
And maybe your travel speed could do with being more constant.
When the weld beads look "stringy" or "stretched", it usually means your travel speed is too quick. slowing down would also give more time to melt through, or penetrate further.
In a couple of places, the reverse side shows a couple of points of decent penetration, so you can't be far off blowing through, but only for a couple of millimetres, in a couple of places. Maybe you slowed down or paused slightly at those points?
You'll find that the difference between full penetration and blowing a hole, is minimal.
Bear in mind that if you were butt welding 2 pieces of that same sheet together, you'd probably blow right through, as penetration is a bit more than when laying beads on a flat piece.
As you're working gasless, you'd expect the weld to be slightly hotter than usual, so if you slow things down a bit, you should see more signs of penetration on the reverse side of your next piece.
Hope this helps,
C-mower-J

(Mower Folk - sorry, tried not to, but couldn't help it, again!)

 

[mowersman]

Ok, I guess i was expecting too much, I'll try again at the weekend.
I'll also pop the side cover off and just check for loose connections or obvious damage.
Thanks
Andrew

 

[keith19]

I have the 151EN, and I wouldn't expect to blow through 3mm plate by just running beads on it, unless you're really trying hard. There's no much point, for one thing. for another the expanse of flat sheet takes the heat out pretty quickly.

If you really want to blow through 3mm, cut some strips about 2 cm wide and however long, and practice on those. You should soon blow through!

Much better to practice joints on 3mm, lovely size to weld with gasless. You should be able to go up to 4-5 mm with gasless on the 151EN at the top end, if you slow down enough. (Gasless always makes you feel you should be moving faster; it's all the smoke and sizzle. Resist the temptation!).
No mower...

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

if you're wondering both of our names are about lawnmowers we are both members of a old garden machinery club collecting various aincent machines!

 

[keith19]

if you're wondering both of our names are about lawnmowers we are both members of a old garden machinery club collecting various aincent machines!

Did wonder. Nice to hear somebody collects them, there have been some really high-quality machines made in the past.

Some of us on here, who should know better, collect old welders. Others, like me, constantly have to resist the temptation...

We only have a battered old Flymo, by the way, but it still works fine!

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

good machines them flymo's
if you visit
www.tractorbox.co.uk you will see more if you wish to!

 

[steveo3002]

the earth clamp on those machines are rather poor , hardly any contact on a flat sheet , you could putting some molegrips on the panel then the clamp onto that so they have more to clamp onto ...or get a better clamp

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

i found the one came on my 130en was rather naff i bought a 200a one off ebay less than 3 quid to my door!
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Crocodile...ultDomain_3&hash=item336cfda878#ht_500wt_1413
made the world of difference

 

[mowersman]

Complete opposite today, hole blowing!!! However that is on 46 year old LR bulkhead, Think I'm getting the hang of it now though. Still doesn't look very neat, but on practice welds on old pieces of foot well, the metal is breaking before the weld . Will try and get some photos tomorrow.
Thanks for all the advise
Andrew

 

[Lawnmowerboy]

on thin pig iron like landrovers its best to do a load of spots with the torch facing into the last one with about a second in between its easier witha auto helmet