I new to this forum and keen to do some trailer repairs.got new 6013 3.2mm rods auto helmet set on 11.5 darknees.sens set on high delay medium.welder set on 100 amps.welder 25%@80 amps and my old one is 25%@130amps.new one cuts out after 2-3 minutes.which one would be better to use.any hints and tips would be helpful.i need to weld some 50x50x3mm tube for a frame. thanks
- Thread starter kdalton
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I new to this forum and keen to do some trailer repairs.got new 6013 3.2mm rods auto helmet set on 11.5 darknees.sens set on high delay medium.welder set on 100 amps.welder 25%@80 amps and my old one is 25%@130amps.new one cuts out after 2-3 minutes.which one would be better to use.any hints and tips would be helpful.i need to weld some 50x50x3mm tube for a frame. thanks
I agree with Kent. A 3.2 mm rod is tricky with 3mm steel and a 2.5mm would be better as well as easier on the welder.
Modern buzz boxes are notorious for cutting out after a couple of rods, then you have to wait ten minutes for them to cool and reset, then you can use another rod or two and it trips and you wait another ten minutes, and so on. As the current is set higher the overheating and tripping gets much worse. Some of them don't even have a fan. Anyway, assuming it takes a minute to burn a rod, 25%@80A would mean you could burn 2 and half 2.5mm rods and then you'd have to wait 7 and a half minutes for it to cool down. The story's more complicated than that, but that's roughly it. That seems to tally with what you are finding. In my experience, the duty cycle claims made for these things are exaggerated.
Buzz boxes are OK if you only want to burn a rod or two to fix a gate or something, every now and then, and that can be damned useful. If you want to do a lot of practice or have a big job, they're a pain.
I thought you bought the new buzz box because the old welder was too heavy to lug about. I don't know how you are fixed or what these welders are like, but from what you've said, I'd be inclined to use the old one if possible.
Modern buzz boxes are notorious for cutting out after a couple of rods, then you have to wait ten minutes for them to cool and reset, then you can use another rod or two and it trips and you wait another ten minutes, and so on. As the current is set higher the overheating and tripping gets much worse. Some of them don't even have a fan. Anyway, assuming it takes a minute to burn a rod, 25%@80A would mean you could burn 2 and half 2.5mm rods and then you'd have to wait 7 and a half minutes for it to cool down. The story's more complicated than that, but that's roughly it. That seems to tally with what you are finding. In my experience, the duty cycle claims made for these things are exaggerated.
Buzz boxes are OK if you only want to burn a rod or two to fix a gate or something, every now and then, and that can be damned useful. If you want to do a lot of practice or have a big job, they're a pain.
I thought you bought the new buzz box because the old welder was too heavy to lug about. I don't know how you are fixed or what these welders are like, but from what you've said, I'd be inclined to use the old one if possible.
the photo are welds on 10mm plate what do you think.about the welds.i will try the old welder tomorrow with 2.5mm rods on some 30x30x3mmsquare tube.i have seen some 130amp dc inverter welders the one im looking at is 250 dollars. its a boc smootharc.I live in Australia and this is the best welding forum I have found.keep up those helpful tips.thanks
The welds fit in with what you've said, you've welded before but you are rusty and you've got to get back the knack of keeping the speed of travel right, the angle right and the gap right etc.
The BOC smootharc looks OK on paper and is probably a lot more reliable than a Brand X one. 250 AUD (about £125) seems like a very good price for that, however, it's hard to compare prices between countries and it depends what else you can get for your 250 AUD or close.
An inverter is certainly a lot nicer to use than a buzz box and typically has a much better duty cycle. They don't like being dropped, left in the damp, or showered with grinder sparks.
The BOC smootharc looks OK on paper and is probably a lot more reliable than a Brand X one. 250 AUD (about £125) seems like a very good price for that, however, it's hard to compare prices between countries and it depends what else you can get for your 250 AUD or close.
An inverter is certainly a lot nicer to use than a buzz box and typically has a much better duty cycle. They don't like being dropped, left in the damp, or showered with grinder sparks.
now im thinking instead of getting an inverter.i should get travel speed angle and gap right.then maybe buy an inverter.but if I get travel angle and gap right maybe the buzzbox might be ok.i know the duty cycle is not very good I could live with that maybe. .when it does cut out time for a beer.what do you think mate.
On the other hand, because the inverter has a better duty cycle, it's easier to get the practice.
I think you need to burn a few more rods before you tackle the trailer. These are welds you really don't want to come apart, so no hit and miss stuff with wormholes and such.
I really can't answer that question. It depends what the 250 AUD means to you and how much you are going to use it and a host of other things. If it comes down to money, it might even make more sense to get someone to do the welding for you.
It's always time for a beer.
I think you need to burn a few more rods before you tackle the trailer. These are welds you really don't want to come apart, so no hit and miss stuff with wormholes and such.
I really can't answer that question. It depends what the 250 AUD means to you and how much you are going to use it and a host of other things. If it comes down to money, it might even make more sense to get someone to do the welding for you.
It's always time for a beer.
35%@130amps is the duty cycle.. 60%@105amps and 100%@82amps that's what they say.i do need to burn a few rods.so im going to get one next week.thanks for your help mate.cheers
It depends what ambient temperature the duty cycle is quoted at. It's usually 40C, 25C or 20C. Obviously a 35% duty cycle @ 40C is a better specification than 35% @ 20C and a 35% duty cycle @ 40C probably translates to well over 60% @20C. The standard says 40C should be used. Some makers play tricks with the temperature as well as the current at which the claimed duty cycle was obtained and some don't mention the temperature or current at all. The BOC smootharc spec quotes a set of currents but doesn't state the temperature.
http://www.boc.com.au/wcsstore/NZ_B...ct/en_NZ/Smootharc MMA 130_170 Tech Sheet.pdf
My 8 year old inverter has a claimed 35% duty cycle at 40C at 130A. I've yet to have it overheat, and I find that running a 3.2mm rod at a 130A setting on it, is impossibly hot. 120A gives a lot of spatter. 110 to 115A seems right for most rods.
Some quite modestly priced modern inverters have much better paper specs than mine.
http://www.weldequip.com/parweld-xti160.htm
The BOC smootharc looks like this Ryval machine sold by BOC in the UK.
http://www.boconlineshop.com/shop/en/uk/ryval-130-mma-lift-tig-machine
I'm not aware that anyone on here uses one and just looking at it, for £240 inc tax, I think you could get much better value from R-Tech, or Weldequip and several other suppliers.
http://www.weldequip.com/mma-welders.htm
http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/welding_equipment/Arc_MMA_Welder
The warranty period and terms are well worth thinking about as well.
However, I've no idea what the welding inverter market is like in Oz.
http://www.boc.com.au/wcsstore/NZ_B...ct/en_NZ/Smootharc MMA 130_170 Tech Sheet.pdf
My 8 year old inverter has a claimed 35% duty cycle at 40C at 130A. I've yet to have it overheat, and I find that running a 3.2mm rod at a 130A setting on it, is impossibly hot. 120A gives a lot of spatter. 110 to 115A seems right for most rods.
Some quite modestly priced modern inverters have much better paper specs than mine.
http://www.weldequip.com/parweld-xti160.htm
The BOC smootharc looks like this Ryval machine sold by BOC in the UK.
http://www.boconlineshop.com/shop/en/uk/ryval-130-mma-lift-tig-machine
I'm not aware that anyone on here uses one and just looking at it, for £240 inc tax, I think you could get much better value from R-Tech, or Weldequip and several other suppliers.
http://www.weldequip.com/mma-welders.htm
http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/welding_equipment/Arc_MMA_Welder
The warranty period and terms are well worth thinking about as well.
However, I've no idea what the welding inverter market is like in Oz.
