First time doing gates, abit of advice please.

[barracuda816]

Following on from my new workshop thread, I have to make a pair of doors. I want a steel frame and clad in wood. I'm not too worried about security as the to get to the workshop its about half a mile down a private driveway, not visible from the road, no footpaths anywhere near, a fair way outside a small village and you have to drive right past the landlady's house. However saying that, It will still be secure.

I was thinking of 30x30 2.5mm box the large door is 190cm by 220cm so once clad it will have some weight and I don't want it to go out of square. Will this be sufficient? The Large door will open only form the inside an the hinges will not be the lift off type.

Any advice esp on the reinforcing is greatly appreciated, as these will be my first doors/gates.

Regards, Luke

 

[Kent]

Ok the hanging drawings look wrong but

Yes 30x 30 is too small. 40 mm is the norm 50 + box on big doors

I don't really get your drawing but it looks like the toe and heel brace is flipped
Normally if it's realy required it goes bottom hinged corner up lo lock side top

Likewise the single door hinging

Gusset braces ( I think you indicate these on the big door) superfluous if you use the right stuff

40x 40 casing, 40x40 leaf frame with flat bar inner to pick up infill panel is usual

Don't be fooled security wise I live very rural and the crooks know it's a good hour for cops to arrive at most times. They even choose Friday sat nights when they know all hands will be in town sorting drunks and punch ups

 

[barracuda816]

Thanks Kent,

I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by Leaf frame.

I have reworked the (rubbish, quick) drawings. Would this be better in 2.5mm 40x40?

 

[Kent]

Yes that is how you toe and heel

Shouldn't be required on the stable door

Frame is casing
Leaf is the door itself

Making a casing allows you a better fit if you need to pack etc to true things up into the appstore -Somewhere to fit locks and keeps and hang hinges

 

[barracuda816]

Thats Great, thanks Kent. ]

Just looking at pricing it up, will 2mm wall suffice or should i go 2.5?

I will make sure i take pics when im building them.

 

[gaz1]

I used a fire door for my steel doors that was made out of 1.5mm / 2mm steel

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/my-first-project-workshop-security-door.20688/

 

[Gareth J]

Strange to suggest flipping the bracing on the doors, particularly on the big gate. Steel is stronger in tension, so the original drawing of the gate will resist drooping more. Or you can use a lighter section of steel for the same strength.

Also, what're you cladding in? Two half sheets of marine ply for the big door will resist droop, lots of narrow boards will encourage it more

 

[brightspark]

http://ultraeasy.blogspot.co.uk/2012/11/what-is-right-way-to-brace-gate.html

 

[Kent]

Frankly I should use 3 mm in 40 mm. Galvanising it after production

2.5 should be OK though. It's just I don't pay as much a length and so the difference is peanuts. Thicker is always better.

2 mm is going to rust out from Inside and why make something like that again? Do it once do it right 2.5 minimum

 

[Kent]

It's just how it's done johnser
Think gravity acting on the hinging
Most need no diagonal but wide stuff yeah do it, single std door up to 1000 mm I shouldn't bother

 

[Gareth J]

It's just how it's done johnser

Not on any of the long gates I've had made. I admit they're all function over form but if you're doing it the other way it must be purely for aesthetics.

In this design, a bit of flat from top hinge to bottom latch side would provide a lot of droop resistance and can be behind any timber you infil with. Flat in compression would be pretty useless so you'd need to use a box section which would be interfering with your wood bits more.

Plus, I prefer the look of the strain bar in tension. It makes sense to look at.

 

[barracuda816]

Thanks for the advice guys. And for the link, very interesting.

 

[Kent]

You make em how you want. It ain't anything people are forced to do, it's been done for hundreds of years like this

Some very modern farm gates only cost £ 50 and you see all sorts of wacky stuff then surrounding cost mainly

Some wood gates have as attached picture, as do my estate style also shown

 

[Gareth J]

Sure, each to their own. I'm just saying I prefer the look of the way that makes more engineering sense and that there's no point changing the design unless the other way appeals more.

We don't get many estates or fancy places round here so perhaps I'm not used to seeing them done your way.

 

[Kent]

Attachments ain't playing at present will try again later

 

[Kent]

 

[Kent]

Sure, each to their own. I'm just saying I prefer the look of the way that makes more engineering sense and that there's no point changing the design unless the other way appeals more.

We don't get many estates or fancy places

round here so perhaps I'm not used to seeing them done your way.

Post a drawing of what your actually meaning from an engineering point of view, it's done bottom hinge to top closing corner as a diagonal. The thinking is drop. The other way actually builds in a drop force. I think there is actually a communication issue here

 

[Gareth J]

Post a drawing of what your actually meaning from an engineering point of view, it's done bottom hinge to top closing corner as a diagonal. The thinking is drop. The other way actually builds in a drop force. I think there is actually a communication issue here

Like the very first drawing the chap posted.

Or this gate:
https://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=https://www.jacksons-fencing.co.uk/pages/products/db_Metal-Field-Gate-rear.image?id=17437&t=4&m=1&height=400&width=500&crop=false&fit=true&imgrefurl=https://www.jacksons-fencing.co.uk/fencing/agricultural-gates/heavy-metal-field/agricultural-gates-heavy-metal-field.aspx&docid=VZsqp7MOf7yyjM&tbnid=EgZcXo7dvzd-sM:&w=500&h=400&client=ms-android-google&bih=568&biw=360&ved=0ahUKEwj6x_yppaXMAhWDqxoKHRALAQY4ZBAzCBooFzAX&iact=mrc&uact=8

Steel is much stronger in tension that's why it's done like that normally?

Those pics you posted are symmetrical, they have a tension and compression beam so will of course be stronger but if you had to choose just one brace, the first pic would be much more effective and I think look "right".

Edit: I'm not trying to say either is right or wrong just that changing the design may not be needed unless the OP prefers the look of the other way

 

[outofthefire]

I personally would have made it out of angle if it's going to be clad in wood.

 

[Kent]

Ok I don't agree