First Mig welder help please

[Mjc_tree]

I will start by saying hello as this is my first post on here
i want to buy my first Mig welder I was looking at the sealey supermig150
But not shore now I'm confused by all the choices
So looking for recommendations on new machines
Also what I need to buy (I know this may sound silly)But I have not a clue about welding (but want to learn)
i will be working with it form home
I want a machine to last (not just a welder for a year or so)

Cheers to anyone who points me in the rite direction or try's to help

 

[PTvor]

It depends how much you've got to spend, of course.

But if you are going to be using the machine a lot and the budget stretches a bit further, have a look at these.

http://www.weldequip.com/mig-welders.htm

The Gys for about £420 all told, has a front panel to help you set it up and gets good reviews. The Parweld (about £490) has capacitor smoothing and six power settings. Both have Euro torches which isn't essential, but it's got advantages.

Then there are inverter MIGs which are worth considering, particularly CWS and R-Tech at that sort of price.

It also depends what you are doing. If it's mainly car panels, duty cycles don't really come into it because you are using the machine at the lowest power setting where the duty cycle is usually 100% and you are not spending that much time welding anyway. If it's a lot of heavier steel, up to the limits of what the welder can do, (about 4mm for a 150A MIG) then the duty cycle of hobby type transformer machines is abysmal. Inverter type MIGs have much better duty cycles and often the option to switch to stick.

 

[Mjc_tree]

Not really got a buget I just want to buy rite
Mainly be welding mild steel stuff like 2mm box section 2-3mm angle
Truck repares etc

 

[PTvor]

As you pay more you get better machines with things like four roller wire feeds and stitch timers and which have more hours of life designed into them so you can use them for production welding. You can also get synergic MIGs where the machine does most of the set up when you dial in what you are doing.

A lot of people on here have been very happy with Portamigs which are made by Tech Arc and there are other variants made by them; Britweld and Oxford are a couple. They're about £600 and up.

Then there's the question of whether you want to go the inverter MIG route.

In my view, if you are spending £400 and up on a new machine you get something respectable and pleasant to use and fine for even heavy amateur use. That said, a lot of people have found that they have got on well with Clarke and Sealey MIGs and they've done everything they've wanted.

 

[cumbriasteve]

If you are serious about buy once and buy right then I would tend to go for something around the 180 to 200 amp machines, although it should be noted to use a machine much above 150 amps usually requires an upgrade to the electricity supply or fuses will be popping.

150 amps is ok but it's amazing how the hobby bites and having that little bit of extra power will come in handy.

If you are certain you are sticking to 3mm and not much over then I also think the GYS 160 is a good buy, I personally like the Oxfords as well and if I was welding more than my present hobby welding the Oxford would probably be my choice.

The R-Tech 180, very popular and good dealer back up and I certainly have no complaints at all about the Clarke I presently use, although in the real world the machines mentioned are probably a step up from that.

 

[Chris Stevens]

Not really got a buget I just want to buy rite
Mainly be welding mild steel stuff like 2mm box section 2-3mm angle
Truck repares etc

If you are using the machine for money making work, then I would suggest forgetting the home user/DIY level machines, and look at new or used industrial. If its occasional home use then the better known DIY machines will be fine, but obviously wont last as long as industrial.

 

[Jim Davey]

How manly is your electrical supply? This tends to be the governing factor in dictating what you can run in the shop, after budget of course.

 

[PTvor]

Not really got a buget I just want to buy rite

A lot of people on here would say that buying a Portamig was buying once and buying right, there aren't many complaints about them apart from the wait.

There's a big difference between industrial welding, say making security gates all day long, and anything you sound likely to be doing, since you were thinking about buying a Sealey SuperMig.

If you really don't have a budget, Fronius, Kemppi, Miller, Migatronic and a few others make top quality MIG welders which can put up with industrial use.

 

[Mjc_tree]

Sorry it taking me a while to replie I'm in the middle of moving house
I won't be using the machine to make money just for home use
And I will be using a 13amp plug

 

[Mjc_tree]

Now I known what I can spare cost due to moving house it would be anywhere between 300-600
Pounds

 

[PTvor]

Gas/consumables/ppe/incidentals add up of course and it depends how much you've already got to hand.

Gas: Say £90 deposit and £60 a refill for rent free (there are a few deals of various kinds around and that's the one I'm using now) or the Volkzone BOC rental deal, which I think is about £50 a year rent and £30 a refill.

PPE: autodark helmets start at about £20 on ebay and you really need industrial footwear with steel toe caps (prices from £15 a pair). You can make do with an old leather sports jacket and jeans, but there is proper welding clothing and it's not too dear. Gloves: £5 a pair

Clamps: A couple of sets of three assorted locking clamps at £15 each. £30. But you can never have too many clamps and there are clamps which are works of art, but cost much more than a fiver each. Certainly, trying to weld without clamps is frustrating and doing things the hard way, and I can't see why people try.

An angle grinder and discs, cutting and grinding discs, flapwheels and wire wheels; I'd say starting from £40 for that.

MIG wire, tips etc; say £25 including a 5kg reel of wire.

It depends on how you do the costs, how much you have already, now much you are prepared to scramble with what you've got, and what sort of quality you buy, but I'd say £60+20+20+30+40+25 = about a couple of ton buying low cost items. You can easily pay more, for instance with the angle grinder, you can pay £50 for a bottom of the range 4.5" Makita (you can pay £150 for their top end equivalent) and it's nice to have at least a couple of grinders to avoid swapping wheels all the time. There are better autodark helmets and you can pay over a couple of hundred quid for them etc.

 

[Mjc_tree]

3-600 on a machine
If I can set my self up for 600ish I would be happy
I went to a local tool shop today they had something called a Mig welding140a French made
Any one had any experience with these machines
I have 2 angle grinders

 

[Wozzaaah]

If you'd consider buying a used machine, Malcolm, the forum owner, has a Portamig 181 for sale for £300.

 

[PTvor]

I went to a local tool shop today they had something called a Mig welding140a French made

This sounds more like a general description than a manufacturer and model of machine. There's a 140A GYS which is made in France.

http://www.weldingsuppliesdirect.co...ders/gys-smartmig-142-compact-mig-welder.html

I'd avoid it. The lowest current is 40A and the duty cycle looks poor.

If it is 140A and you intend as you said above you intend to weld a fair bit of 3mm steel, I'd look at things with more top end power as cumbriasteve said.

If you've got up to £600 to spend, there are a lot of well-thought of MIG welders for amateur use when you get over about £450 new. Look at the stuff that Weldequip sells - he has a name for not selling rubbish.

http://www.weldequip.com/mig-welders.htm

Second-hand for that much there's nice stuff about and that Portamig is certainly worth a thought, unless it's already gone.

Then of course there's the inverter MIG possibility where you have much better duty cycles at the top end, a very smooth arc, continuous power settings rather than 4 or 6 steps and usually the facility for MMA; the drawback is the question of reliability and the cost and ease of repair if they go wrong.

 

[Mjc_tree]

Thank you
I know nothing about welding yet as I said
That gys smartmig 142 looks the same as what they had
Cheers for the link

 

[PTvor]

The data sheet is here.


http://www.gys-welding.com/pdf/datasheet/uk/033153.pdf

The duty cycle is better than the first link suggested as the data sheet quotes it at 40C not 20C. That makes quite a difference, it being much easier to cool things with air at 20C than air at 40C.

It's not French made. According to the datasheet it's made in PRC (China). Nothing necessarily wrong with that, but if the seller encouraged you to believe it was made in France what he's saying is at odds with the datasheet.

 

[Mjc_tree]

Iv just watched 5 vids on you tube of the t-tech 180 inverter
£450
If I was to spend my money on this machine would I be spending right
Cheers

 

[cumbriasteve]

The videos are probably the one's by a member of this forum who makes a lot of excellent engineering type videos and even some dubious cooking one's.

Obviously R-Tech are aware of this and for him to demonstrate their machines is excellent advertising for them, he (John) does demonstrate them in my opinion in a very fair way and at no time suggests you should go out and buy one, in fact when using the TIG side he does not edit out the part where it sticks due to being the less popular scratch start.

Personally I would rather see a hands on review by John than a person employed by R-Tech.

That specific model is owned by several members of this forum and I don't think I can recall seeing a negative review.

I would probably buy an Oxford for a little more money but that is nothing but personal choice and my liking of heavy transformer machines, it is no reflection on R-Tech, I actually own one of their MMA sets.

 

[PTvor]

I've got an R-Tech 180A inverter MIG. I'm happy with it so far on MIG and it's also a good MMA set.

No one on here, as far as I know, who has bought one has has found it's other than a very good MIG set and I don't recall much in the way of reliability problems. R-Tech offer a very good two year collect and return warranty.

They have been criticised for offering Chinese sets, which can be bought more cheaply from companies in other countries, and charging a mark-up for UK support.

The decision here is whether you want to go for an inverter design with its advantages and disadvantages, or a transformer type MIG. A transformer design is simpler and likely to be more reliable. If it does go wrong, the electronics is fairly simple and there's a reasonable chance you can fix it yourself. If an inverter goes wrong, you'll almost certainly have to pay someone to fix it and the cost may make you think twice.

Inverter MMA sets have been around for quite a time in the amateur market and there are some good time proven choices around for about £200. Obviously, if you spend more you are going to get something designed for regular heavy use, EWM etc. Most people who want an MMA set and intend to give it more than occasional use, are going to go for an inverter over a cheap air cooled arc welder. Inverter MIG sets have not been around for so long in the DIY/non-industrial end of the market and a lot of people are suspicious of them, mainly on grounds of reliability.

I won't rehearse all the pros and cons of inverter vs transformer, because it's been done before so many times.

You pays your money and you takes your pick.

 

[Vivaro]

Gas/consumables/ppe/incidentals add up of course and it depends how much you've already got to hand.

Gas: Say £90 deposit and £60 a refill for rent free (there are a few deals of various kinds around and that's the one I'm using now) or the Volkzone BOC rental deal, which I think is about £50 a year rent and £30 a refill.

PPE: autodark helmets start at about £20 on ebay and you really need industrial footwear with steel toe caps (prices from £15 a pair). You can make do with an old leather sports jacket and jeans, but there is proper welding clothing and it's not too dear. Gloves: £5 a pair

Clamps: A couple of sets of three assorted locking clamps at £15 each. £30. But you can never have too many clamps and there are clamps which are works of art, but cost much more than a fiver each. Certainly, trying to weld without clamps is frustrating and doing things the hard way, and I can't see why people try.

An angle grinder and discs, cutting and grinding discs, flapwheels and wire wheels; I'd say starting from £40 for that.

MIG wire, tips etc; say £25 including a 5kg reel of wire.

It depends on how you do the costs, how much you have already, now much you are prepared to scramble with what you've got, and what sort of quality you buy, but I'd say £60+20+20+30+40+25 = about a couple of ton buying low cost items. You can easily pay more, for instance with the angle grinder, you can pay £50 for a bottom of the range 4.5" Makita (you can pay £150 for their top end equivalent) and it's nice to have at least a couple of grinders to avoid swapping wheels all the time. There are better autodark helmets and you can pay over a couple of hundred quid for them etc.

Hi I got my gas from Hobby Gas agent. you can do a search. Argon/co2. deposit on bottle 60 pounds and 30 odd for the gas. Plus vat. Boc was an arm and a leg. want credit checks and rental every year. Another company Abee or something 180 for the bottle outright.. I found Hobby gas was the best for me as newbie. Low outlay and a lot of Gas.

Ebay has all the clamps for buttons 3 piece toolzone welders set £12.99 inc postage

Hope this helps