First MIG for car restoration

[Wursle]

Hello Fellow Welders,

I am looking at purchasing my first MIG welder to carry out a restoration on an old BMW E30.

I have seen one of the new Clarkes machines has come up at an interesting price and was wondering if anyone had any experience with the new Clarkes MIG120A-Multi Inverter Welder?

The unit looks to go down to low amperage of 20A, being an inverter unit I have heard these are more user friendly/easier to dial in than some of the older transformer based units.

I am only looking to do body repairs at this point in time

 

[Cobbler]

Hi there welcome to the forum, you may not get a reply on this one as it is brand new I think & may be untried by anyone on here. There are also no reviews on the Machine Mart site to go on either. Hopefully someone who knows more than me will be along shortly.

 

[JOEPRO]

From my experience in alot of autobody welding you are best with 0.6mm wire and using Gas.

So you should budget for a small bottle (not the £15 disposable ones) but a rent free cylinder which will require a deposit.

If it were me I would get a decent cylinder sorted and buy a good used MIG welder from Gumtree etc. SIP or similar brand.

 

[arther dailey]

best bet , quote your budget , @8ob previewed a mig on her recently and that came out with good results

 

[Wursle]

kemppi minarcmig 200 evo second hand is what I use
works well.
Got any pics of the project? I'm restoring an E30 too. www.cclassics.com

I don’t have tons but this is from when I first picked it up, I am planning to 2.8 swap it with an engine from an E36 (already bought). The body is tatty but underneath is good and not rotten! I have seen your stuff and it was actually a big influence in doing this myself, I’ve wanted to learn this skill for ages and I’m now finally in a position to do it

 

[Wursle]

best bet , quote your budget , @8ob previewed a mig on her recently and that came out with good results

I suppose my answer would be to this is I don’t want to buy a very cheap unit that will break with no spares to replace. I want to spend enough that if an experienced welder was to use the equipment he could lay solid welds and that it’s my ability and technique that’s holding me back. I have seen some people lay some really good welds with say the Clarke 135TE and been reliant on a machine like that for their business. Not too expensive and not too cheap. If you go with a known brand is it more down to the person welding above anything?

I want to learn this craft and don’t want to be restricted by equipment, but also don’t want to overspend on a machine I won’t see 80% of the benefits on if that makes sense

 

[gaz1]

I have seen some people lay some really good welds with say the Clarke 135TE and been reliant on a machine like that for their business. Not too expensive and not too cheap. If you go with a known brand is it more down to the person welding above anything?

I want to learn this craft and don’t want to be restricted by equipment, but also don’t want to overspend on a machine I won’t see 80% of the benefits on if that makes sense

your a newbie but why have you downgraded the machine compared to what your saying

also why buy a multi machine when the one youve seen is not a multi machine

im sorry to say welding is not a skin flint job and welding takes practice and welding vehicles is a different matter again

you can get by with a clarke or a sip ( sips need some work to be a good welder )

prices have changed by 70.00 nowadays to get started your going to need 450.00 used to be 400.00 and that was buying the clarke 151 gas account and the tools needed to get started
to get a more powerful machine start added 100.00+ to the price and look higher

your vehicle is between 0.6mm steel up to and above 5mm that machine wont do it as you would need to learn 2 welding practices with it

a 151 would get you passed many of them on some parts you would still need an arc welder

are you being restrictive well to be honest yes you are, but your also being a skinflint as well

dont worry ive been there, like many of us as we all had to learn to weld
ive also got to the stage im not pulling the welder out for peanuts either if people expect that go elsewhere for me as i gained that respect for the welder doing the job

 

[Wursle]

your a newbie but why have you downgraded the machine compared to what your saying

also why buy a multi machine when the one youve seen is not a multi machine

im sorry to say welding is not a skin flint job and welding takes practice and welding vehicles is a different matter again

you can get by with a clarke or a sip ( sips need some work to be a good welder )

prices have changed by 70.00 nowadays to get started your going to need 450.00 used to be 400.00 and that was buying the clarke 151 gas account and the tools needed to get started
to get a more powerful machine start added 100.00+ to the price and look higher

your vehicle is between 0.6mm steel up to and above 5mm that machine wont do it as you would need to learn 2 welding practices with it

a 151 would get you passed many of them on some parts you would still need an arc welder

are you being restrictive well to be honest yes you are, but your also being a skinflint as well

dont worry ive been there, like many of us as we all had to learn to weld
ive also got to the stage im not pulling the welder out for peanuts either if people expect that go elsewhere for me as i gained that respect for the welder doing the job

I was just using it for reference the Clarke 135TE, and im trying to understand why the Multi 120A inverter was actually cheaper? Is inverter not important?

Another option that was recommended to me was the RTech 180A MiG inverter welder. I am totally flexible with cost up to say 700-800 but I just need to understand what the pros and cons are for going with the more expensive units.

My sole intention with this welder is to learn sheet metal MIG. I don’t really have my eyes on anything else right now but I know I need to learn this to complete my car

 

[Trevorleach]

Cheap 2nd hand machine and have a play on some offcuts.

 

[GRW]

People do say a (good) inverter mig is easier to produce decent wrlds with over a transformer set. It's a lot smaller & lighter also which influences some towards inverter (though when the heaviest most cumbersome bit is usually the gas bottle I'm not so sure it's a big advantage myself).

I went old-school myself & went with a Transformer set (Oxford MigMaker 180-1) as the relative simplicity, reliability, support & reputation made me feel happier about the purchase - but that's just me, & certainly doesn't mean I'm right. (Note transformer sets won't be available new much longer, due to some nonsense regulation regarding energy conservation).

Probably either sort will be fine as long as you get a good un - lots of folk on here far better qualified to advise on that than I

 

[Monkeypeas]

If you're gonna get a clarke you might aswell get a second hand transformer based one (the 151en is the one to get of the small blue ones if you can get one, highest output and gas/gasless switchable), if that means having to learn how to tinker with it or service it its worth the extra effort, they're really simple machines, pretty rugged and reliable, and easy to fix when they do go wrong, torches and feed motors are the weak points, mostly the torches and integrated gas valves though, somewhat cheap and naff, but as long as the gas valve isnt leaking and the torch lead is long enough for what you're doing they're fine.

I still have a 151en and i'd probably keep it if for some reason i had to flog all my larger machines, mine has a euro torch and alloy framed 40w wire feed motor wedged into it mind, i really like em.

I paid £45 for it initially, it hadnt been used in a while, gas valve in the torch was leaky but i knew i'd be modifying it anyway

 

[tom2207]

Farm friend has an Oxford 180 , if you dont have to lift it every day it will do everything you need it to do ,,, as long as you do your part , but thats like any welding machine ,,, welding is only about 20% of a welding job ,,, the trick is in getting the rest sorted.
Gas is a must , I use 0.8 wire most of the time , reg and bottle need paying for and a bit of ppe.

 

[ajlelectronics]

When I got my R-Tech Mig180, my welds improved out of all recognition. It makes such a difference being able dial in the exact power you want, rather than the crude steps of the Clarke that I had for years.

 

[Wozzaaah]

I suppose my answer would be to this is I don’t want to buy a very cheap unit that will break with no spares to replace. I want to spend enough that if an experienced welder was to use the equipment he could lay solid welds and that it’s my ability and technique that’s holding me back. I have seen some people lay some really good welds with say the Clarke 135TE and been reliant on a machine like that for their business. Not too expensive and not too cheap. If you go with a known brand is it more down to the person welding above anything?

I want to learn this craft and don’t want to be restricted by equipment, but also don’t want to overspend on a machine I won’t see 80% of the benefits on if that makes sense

Will a better machine make you a better welder? Technically, no, but it will be much nicer to use and will give you more repeatable results.
Buy something decent then if you finish the job and feel you no longer need it just sell it on.

 

[Wursle]

Cheap 2nd hand machine and have a play on some offcuts.

any recommendation on a cheap units? Draper/Clarkes?

People do say a (good) inverter mig is easier to produce decent wrlds with over a transformer set. It's a lot smaller & lighter also which influences some towards inverter (though when the heaviest most cumbersome bit is usually the gas bottle I'm not so sure it's a big advantage myself).

I went old-school myself & went with a Transformer set (Oxford MigMaker 180-1) as the relative simplicity, reliability, support & reputation made me feel happier about the purchase - but that's just me, & certainly doesn't mean I'm right. (Note transformer sets won't be available new much longer, due to some nonsense regulation regarding energy conservation).

Probably either sort will be fine as long as you get a good un - lots of folk on here far better qualified to advise on that than I

reading a few other threads the oxfords do seem to get some good feedback and all of your reasons for purchase make total sense.

The Clarke stuff does appeal as machine mart carry so many spares and I have a local shop 10 minutes away in case I need spares. My heart isn’t set on any option yet and hearing peoples first hand experiences is always good for a novice like me

 

[Wursle]

Will a better machine make you a better welder? Technically, no, but it will be much nicer to use and will give you more repeatable results.
Buy something decent then if you finish the job and feel you no longer need it just sell it on.

Okay so that’s actually a really good point and what I’ve been trying to get out. From past experiences of learning I have always found repeatability to be one of if not the most important factor to picking something up.

If something was crap but it was consistently crap it’s a lot easier to make corrections, retry and learn

So I suppose the new question is what MiG welders can people recommend that give solid repeatability up to £700

 

[addjunkie]

if it will stay in one place or limited movment, a transformer machine has far less togo wrong and will be easier to repair. Cheaper transformer machines like clarke etc have ali transformers. Oxfords etc copper, which is better, more stable and does not over heat as easily.
Inverter machines are smaller, lighter, and far more complex inside, that said, you still need a gas bottle connected too. But could easily be lifted inside a car with bottle connected by a hose.

Dont bother with disposable bottles, expensive and dont last long.

Some say .6 is best for a car, I prefer .8, but each to their own, there are pros and cons to both. If your working outside in the wind gasless is probably best unless you mess about setting up wind breaks etc.

As for brand. Look for warranty and support at your local supplier. If it makes black magic smoke you need to have someone to help. And buy an auto mask too.

In days gone by the clarke 135 was the go to machine for bodging cars, but there are better things now!

Is 700 machine budget or total for everything you need to start the job

 

[Trevorleach]

any recommendation on a cheap units? Draper/Clarkes?

Not really, all the cheapies are just that, cheap!

I have found bigger machines wound down do a better job than a smaller machine running at the top end.

Always worth a look on facebook marketplace for something local to you.

 

[Wursle]

if it will stay in one place or limited movment, a transformer machine has far less togo wrong and will be easier to repair. Cheaper transformer machines like clarke etc have ali transformers. Oxfords etc copper, which is better, more stable and does not over heat as easily.
Inverter machines are smaller, lighter, and far more complex inside, that said, you still need a gas bottle connected too. But could easily be lifted inside a car with bottle connected by a hose.

Dont bother with disposable bottles, expensive and dont last long.

Some say .6 is best for a car, I prefer .8, but each to their own, there are pros and cons to both. If your working outside in the wind gasless is probably best unless you mess about setting up wind breaks etc.

As for brand. Look for warranty and support at your local supplier. If it makes black magic smoke you need to have someone to help. And buy an auto mask too.

In days gone by the clarke 135 was the go to machine for bodging cars, but there are better things now!

Is 700 machine budget or total for everything you need to start the job

Looking at bigger bottles and with the availability of finance I would probably push this to 800-850 all in.

Reading through a few peoples threads a lot of people have mentioned how nice it is being able to setup with a digital display and get consistency pretty quickly from where they last left off.

As for doing the work I would like to opt for a gas setup as I will be doing the work inside my garage.

One other thing to mention is I do not have a 16Amp socket in my garage and would need to factor this in. Material for this don’t look expensive though (circa 50 quid)

If possible a 13a plug would be ideal as then no additional work is required but I appreciate I may not be able to have my cake and eat it with a more industrial unit

 

[Wursle]

Thoughts on this SIP unit? Displays look nice