Extreme/uneven tyre wear

[the snooper]

On my old van (which had been kerbed a couple of times and hit some hefty potholes) the steering always pulled to the left even on roads with adverse camber. The tyre wear was also uneven so when I took it in to have the tyres replaced I got them to check the tracking which they did. Afterwards the van still pulled to the left so my question is could it have been that the tracking was correct ie the toein was set up but the steering was not centralised, so the power steering was offset so in effect they were fighting each other?

I don't have a great understanding of power steering systems so this is only a query not a theory!

Plus it's for information only now as I have replaced the van.

power steering is actually only power assisted steering so it only actually does something when you turn the wheel no matter what position the wheel is in

 

[AndyStobbs]

On my old van (which had been kerbed a couple of times and hit some hefty potholes) the steering always pulled to the left even on roads with adverse camber. The tyre wear was also uneven so when I took it in to have the tyres replaced I got them to check the tracking which they did. Afterwards the van still pulled to the left so my question is could it have been that the tracking was correct ie the toein was set up but the steering was not centralised, so the power steering was offset so in effect they were fighting each other?

I don't have a great understanding of power steering systems so this is only a query not a theory!

Plus it's for information only now as I have replaced the van.

Cant remember ever owning a car that has never pulled or veered to one side by laser track methods. Best tracking methods is rolling the actual car on paper where you will see any scrubbing. Lasers are used when stationary with no stresses on all the bushings and steering rack.

Seen how much movement there is on all cars rubbers, best thing you can do is junk and replace with the likes of Powerflex poly bushes. Last car used to get 6k on front Michelin Pilots at which insides bald and tracking ok. Fit poly bushes all round then 4 wheel 'camber' set and track got 22k far out stripping the install cost. I only know of two of these suspension specialists within 100 mile rad the one I went to was in Cradley Heath.
You can adjust camber on most cars though your better tyre fitter will say impossible.

Vans had a clout could be easy tracking fix or not.

Can't really agree with you re polybushes, lots of cars have even tyre wear on standard bushes.

Snooper: a problem in the orbitrol unit could still cause power steering issues...

 

[the snooper]

Can't really agree with you re polybushes, lots of cars have even tyre wear on standard bushes.

Snooper: a problem in the orbitrol unit could still cause power steering issues...

not the question wendel was asking

 

[AndyStobbs]

Fail to see why its not relavant to the question Wendelspanswick was asking?

Nevermind: Just re read it

 

[the snooper]

Cant remember ever owning a car that has never pulled or veered to one side by laser track methods. Best tracking methods is rolling the actual car on paper where you will see any scrubbing. Lasers are used when stationary with no stresses on all the bushings and steering rack.

Seen how much movement there is on all cars rubbers, best thing you can do is junk and replace with the likes of Powerflex poly bushes. Last car used to get 6k on front Michelin Pilots at which insides bald and tracking ok. Fit poly bushes all round then 4 wheel 'camber' set and track got 22k far out stripping the install cost. I only know of two of these suspension specialists within 100 mile rad the one I went to was in Cradley Heath.
You can adjust camber on most cars though your better tyre fitter will say impossible.

Vans had a clout could be easy tracking fix or not.

how can you adjust the camber on most cars ? they are factory set, they are either a wishbone or track control arm with no adjustments what so ever

 

[Bill Edwards]

Sadly driving the vehicle myself isn't really an option as I'm not insured, and the only private places available aren't really suitable to get a feel of it - potholed farm tracks, fields etc.

So, the best I can do is suggest getting the tracking checked?

 

[dannyp]

camber adjustment can be found in a few places.

on the frount, where the hub bolts to the suspention strut theer is slop in the holes some are even sloted a littl to allow a certan amount of camber correction, vw even sell camber corection bolts for some models.

lower ball joints are often on sloted holes tho this is more for track adjustment it has a littel affect on camber.

top mounts, some have adjutment diffrent ways but usally ether turning them round or sloted holes.

but usally any camber correction means the the car has to e retraked afterwards.


rear camber.

ther done with shims behind the stub axels or ecentric bolts, sometimes adjustable links

 

[the snooper]

well ive got to say ive not worked on any cars with the above, top mounts are usually symmetrical some will only fit one way, never seen ball joints with slotted holes either, I don't see how a lower ball joint has any effect on tracking if it did have slotted holes then yes slightly but ive not seen any ball joints slotted

 

[AndyStobbs]

Ball joint position has a massive effect on tracking, until the track rod is re-adjusted to suit the new position.
Some cars do have facilty for easy camber adjustment but many do not. Many top mounts are a perfectly concentric cup, some are a flange mount but still concentric or only fit one way. I would say its the exception not the rule.

 

[the snooper]

Ball joint position has a massive effect on tracking, until the track rod is re-adjusted to suit the new position.
Some cars do have facilty for easy camber adjustment but many do not. Many top mounts are a perfectly concentric cup, some are a flange mount but still concentric or only fit one way. I would say its the exception not the rule.

I agree it would if they were adjustable but 99% these days are not, and on an undamaged car the camber will never need to be adjusted

 

[doubleboost]

I replaced 2 front springs on a C class Merc today
The strut is held to the hub assembly with 2 bolts
The top one is slotted giving camber adjustment
Some cars have lower ball joints that are mounted in slotted holes
Some inner track control arm mounts have eccentric mounting bolts
Steering geometry is a very interesting subject
You can set up a racing car with a spirit level a couple of straight edges and some string
Mind you the modern laser gear is much faster
Next time you get a car "laser tracked" just ask the operator what He knows about Akerman steering lol

 

[711jrp]

Anti-Akerman FTW !!

 

[dannyp]

the mk5 golf i've just rebushed the back end on has adjustable tracking and camber.


laser tracking isn't actaulay any better than normal tracking i found it's just faster, so sometimes cheeper but most places charge more as it's superfandango laser. for the daily rattel box it's all good but not allways right for the pet. problem is the computer will work out all the settign to make it drive right ish and some of the operators are to daft or for some reason wont say " something here isn't quite right go away and change the bushes / replace the bent bits then ome back they just set it to the corrected values the conputer says.

last time i took the pet ( mk2 golf ) in to have it set i said how i wanted it set they insisted on setting it to the numbers on there computers database. the two are quite differnt 3 trips back before they finaly did it right and there was a lot of protesting about it.

 

[doubleboost]

To do it "right" the steering rack should be locked dead centre and each wheel set up to the correct "toe in /out"
You can have the tracking spot on but have more lock one way than the other lol
Like I sat there is more to steering geometry than one would think
What about caster angle

 

[Wedg1e]

A few years ago I found one front tyre of my TVR had scrubbed off massively around the inside. Steering had been vague and woolly for a while but I put it down to a worn UJ in the steering column.
It didn't take long to prove it wasn't that, so then I tried crowbar-ing the suspension arms around and found slack in the lower arm inner bush (it's a Cortina arm). As one of the PAS hoses leaked constantly and there was fluid everywhere I guessed the rubber bush had perished so I pulled the arm out - and found the inner steel sleeve of the bush had cracked longitudinally in three places.
I couldn't recall hitting any kerbs so what caused it I don't know, but the tyre wear was horrific.
Ignore the shredded rubber, that was caused by the sockets I used to press the bush out... those three cracks run the length of the inner sleeve.

 

[711jrp]

What about caster angle

Sainsburys shopping trollies wouldn't work without it,,,,,

 

[Mikey D]

I had uneven wear on one tyre on a sprinter van I used to own , I must of clouted the curb sometime
Had it tracked and it was fine after .
So yea it can affect one side only .

 

[hareng]

Can't really agree with you re polybushes, lots of cars have even tyre wear on standard bushes. /quote]

True but you will extended tyre life and handling with poly bushes. Original soft rubber is fitted as standard to soften the ride and of course moves a lot which is very noticeable under braking forcing extra toe out.

Thanks Danny.
McPhersons have over large holes so can alter camber a few degrees. Been able to get eccentric bolts often known as adjustable camber bolts from places like Larkspeed and Demon Tweaks, had em on my Veccy not cheap about £70 8 yrs ago.
Incidentally from new the camber was incorrect and pretty much preset. While having a look at the Veccy I noticed serious negative camber in straight line put a little lock on around 20 degrees and went positive camber on one wheel and more negative on the opposite side! Cured with adjustable camber bolts, poly bushes then set up by a specialist £40 of which theres no more than 6 in UK.

Gone are the days wen we used to alter castor on RS via the roll bar and chop a section out of the track control arm to reduce camber.

 

[Farside]

I'm looking at a '93 Mercedes 310D van which has very extreme tyre wear on the front nearside tyre. The tyre is very good but is showing more tread on the inside than the middle and a serious loss of tread at the extreme outer.
The other tyre is slightly more worn on the outer but not by much, and doesn't have the extreme wear on the shoulder.

The kingpin was replaced in January, a little before that that side leaf spring was replaced. The wheel bearing doesn't have an excessive amount of play, nor do the steering joints. The spring doesn't appear to be broken, the axle doesn't appear to be in the wrong place (forwards/backwards). The camber doesn't appear to be wrong by eye (no gauges to hand). The vehicle appears slightly higher to that side, but not by much and is probably the leaf spring (or an uneven load, or where it is parked as the ground may not be 100% level).

Any thoughts?

Hmm... reminds me of my 1997 Transit; came to me with 30K on it and was a great little tug, but had an annoying habit of nearside front tyre wear and always pulling slightly to the left. Tracking was checked several times and everything else seemed fine.
It wasn't until I was getting rid of it and taking the towbar off when there was a 'spronk' noise as the remaining bolts came undone, that the penny dropped. Driving it over to the dealer's for the trade-in, it drove perfectly well, no pulling, absolutely perfect. The chassis legs (such as they are) must have been slightly racked by some incident before I bought it. I'll say this, the accident repair was well-done, there was no sign of it, but the hidden misalignment wasn't picked up on.

 

[daleyd]

Hmm... reminds me of my 1997 Transit; came to me with 30K on it and was a great little tug, but had an annoying habit of nearside front tyre wear and always pulling slightly to the left. Tracking was checked several times and everything else seemed fine.
It wasn't until I was getting rid of it and taking the towbar off when there was a 'spronk' noise as the remaining bolts came undone, that the penny dropped. Driving it over to the dealer's for the trade-in, it drove perfectly well, no pulling, absolutely perfect. The chassis legs (such as they are) must have been slightly racked by some incident before I bought it. I'll say this, the accident repair was well-done, there was no sign of it, but the hidden misalignment wasn't picked up on.

Could it have been the tow bar incorrectly fitted, twisting the chassis out of alignment? Or perhaps had a prang on the bar itself??