Esab Dewalt Battery powered welder - the future?

[hotponyshoes]

Apparently it comes with the 20V/60V flexvolt batteries and not the 18V/54V ones. And the supply voltage is 80V DC in battery mode.

Renegade VOLT™ ES 200i

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The 20v/60v are identical to the 18v/54v ones. They just put the higher voltage on the sticker for the American Market.
Same as the bosch 10.8v ones are branded as "12v MAX" in the states.

If it's 80v input that would suggest it could be run off other batteries then?

 

[angellonewolf]

I haven't seen any information on the esab to suggest it can use the normal dewalt batteries.
Which makes me think it needs the 54v from the flexvolt ones.

So the 20+ dewalt batteries you have might not be any use.
If you already have 4 or more of the flexvolt you are obviously a rich enough brand-tart to be the target market for the Renegade

yea not that rich only 18v but quite a few of them ive had the use of the flexvolts and the longlasting of them is great but the unblance of the tool unless its a flexvolt tool makes the tool harder to use so ie only ever went with the 18s

ive looked in to the makita 40v now there not that much more heavy than the 18v but its a 40v battery for the 40 tool

and i like to get value for money and flexvolt and makita 40 are plenty money so cant see me jumping any time soon

 

[E T]

The 20v/60v are identical to the 18v/54v ones. They just put the higher voltage on the sticker for the American Market.
Same as the bosch 10.8v ones are branded as "12v MAX" in the states.

If it's 80v input that would suggest it could be run off other batteries then?

Now why would they do that? Do the yanks only know round numbers?

Using other batteries depends how they are connected. If it's 4x20V(18V) in series then yes you could also use the normal 18V ones
If it's two parallel sets of 20V and 60V in series then your stuck to the flexvolt version.
I still don't get the 18V/54V and 20V/60V sticker for the US. 18V/54V will never give you the 80V supply Esab mentions.

 

[angellonewolf]

Now why would they do that? Do the yanks only know round numbers?

Using other batteries depends how they are connected. If it's 4x20V(18V) in series then yes you could also use the normal 18V ones
If it's two parallel sets of 20V and 60V in series then your stuck to the flexvolt version.
I still don't get the 18V/54V and 20V/60V sticker for the US. 18V/54V will never give you the 80V supply Esab mentions.

i guess if you ever measured a 18v battery fully charged they show up to 20v very near or just over

when used they go down to 17,6 i think from memery

so assume usa use the top volts and we use the lower volts to name the batterys


again im sure some one will confirm even though the lihium batterys say 3.7 v once charged they show a little over 4v

 

[Robbie260]

Quick look on Google suggests they are both around the same price if you buy the esab WITH 4 dewalt battries (and the 4 bay charger)
I'd imagine the esab would be a lot more tempting than the fronius/lorch if you already had dewalt kit.

Unless the esab is using the 54v I can't see any reason why they couldn't offer models for other platforms? Unless esab/dewalt are owned by the same parent?

I'd agree about the modern esab reliability concerns and I'd personally consider the fronius to be a higher-end machine (not that I've ever tried either of them)

But 4 separate battries on the esab also has the advantage that if one stops working its a fraction of the replacement cost.

Ah right the quote I recently got for one priced them both the same within a few hundred pounds and no batteries with the esab but internet may have better deals.

 

[Matchless]

Yea, I'd have one as I can see the advantages to it.
I do quite a few odd jobs on farms etc where it takes 10x longer to move the kit in and set it up than it takes to do the welding.
An angle grinder and one of those would probably cover 90% of those jobs as 2 rods would be plenty.
The tig side would also cover 90% of the odd bits of stainless welding I do in milking parlours..
I'd struggle to make it pay for itself with the jobs I'd have to use it for though!
Plus I don't have any dewalt kit!

I do have a battery mig welder, gas or gas less. Just runs from car batteries.
It will run from 12v-36v. Problem is, its not brilliant at 12v so I can't just plug it into the anderson connector on my truck.
At 24v it actually welds very nicely but it's just not that practical to charge up & lug 2x big batteries around with it.
I keep meaning to make up a li-ion pack for it or maybe try running it from a 36v ebike pack...
Main issue with that is, I'd normally only bother to use a mig welder if there was a decent amount of welding to do which then means lots of battery power.
Although the mig is ideal for thin rusty steel and I see a fair bit of that.

I'd like to get the esab and make up my own power pack for it, especially if I could make the same pack run my mig and maybe a 230v inverter, work lights etc..
But, it's a chunk of money and I already have plenty of 200a+ welders, a generator, loads of heavy extension leads...

I know someone with 1500 Lithium cells!

 

[Brad93]

Check where it's made. Massive failure rate on the Rebels.
The new fabricators are made in india.
Warriors weren't much better, chinese made boards, assembled in Czech Republic.

I used to work for esab, and honestly it's a crying shame to see what the American investment firm have done to their products.

There's LAF subarc units 40 years old still working all over the world. Their first TIG inverter, the AristoTig, made in sweden, i know of many of those still running.

It's lucky there is the certification to global standards behind consumables, otherwise you can guarantee the quality European and American made rods/wires would have been replaced by now.

 

[eddie49]

Now why would they do that? Do the yanks only know round numbers?

I still don't get the 18V/54V and 20V/60V sticker for the US. 18V/54V will never give you the 80V supply Esab mentions.

Mr. Google he says:
"Li-Ion cells e.g. 18650 : nominal 3.6v or 3.7v, lowest safe discharge 2.5v, fully charged 4.2v"
The batteries for "18volt" cordless power tools contain 5 cells in series ( and possibly parallel combinations to achieve larger capacity and higher discharge current ), so 5 x the 4-ish volts gives the "20v" description.
It is not only the Yanks - Lidl's "Parkside" range is also named "The X20v Team".

 

[Pigeon_Droppings2]

I have 2 of those 54v DeWalt flex batteries so I'm halfway there.

They ain't light....but the do power my Dyson cordless all day long!

 

[JOEPRO]

They are tig and arc only and appear to retail for £3500.

Seeing the many broken Esab machines that come through this forum, no thanks but others will copy for sure.

 

[Maker]

The 20v/60v are identical to the 18v/54v ones. They just put the higher voltage on the sticker for the American Market.
Same as the bosch 10.8v ones are branded as "12v MAX" in the states.

If it's 80v input that would suggest it could be run off other batteries then?

Wiring diagram on the last few pages here. It looks like A. There's more connections to the battery than just B+, B- and temp, perhaps one of those is the signal to output 54v? And B. The DC output of the series-ed batteries appears to be in parallel with the rectified AC input. It'll run on either 230 or 120VAC, so the DC bus voltage will be in the 170-300VDC range, so I'd expect it wants 216VDC from the batteries rather than 72.

 

[Brad93]

They are tig and arc only and appear to retail for £3500.

Seeing the many broken Esab machines that come through this forum, no thanks but others will copy for sure.

Personally, i know there have been failures with all the battery systems on the market.

Technically, fronius is probably the only firm with actual experience in charging and battery systems. I've heard of the least faults with their system.

You can't beat an engine driven welder when there really is no available power.

 

[MattF]

Now why would they do that? Do the yanks only know round numbers?

They're a peculiar bunch. I've noticed with the Bosch gear, in the US, they seem to give them names, or make numbers seem bigger/better.

 

[Erie Fred]

Now why would they do that? Do the yanks only know round numbers?

Using other batteries depends how they are connected. If it's 4x20V(18V) in series then yes you could also use the normal 18V ones
If it's two parallel sets of 20V and 60V in series then your stuck to the flexvolt version.
I still don't get the 18V/54V and 20V/60V sticker for the US. 18V/54V will never give you the 80V supply Esab mentions.

Yes, we round up 575 volt supply to 600 volt.
You on the other hand......

 

[Jan-DIY]

This battery is inside the Fronius Accupocket. 6x8 26650 A123 LiFePO Cells.

 

[Robbie260]

Personally, i know there have been failures with all the battery systems on the market.

Technically, fronius is probably the only firm with actual experience in charging and battery systems. I've heard of the least faults with their system.

You can't beat an engine driven welder when there really is no available power.

Heard of a few of the Fronius units batteries failing from just being sat unused too long and needing to go back to Fronius for super charging but that’s honestly the worst of it.

Though maybe you have more ears to the ground than me Brad so it be interesting to know what went wrong with the units if it was something else.

 

[Robbie260]

They are gradually getting more popular sip and a few others have released cheaper models now:

Battery Welders | Buy Online | Welding Supplies Direct

www.weldingsuppliesdirect.co.uk

BritArc 150 Battery Welder

Newer and improved innovative battery powered welder. Ideal for those jobs where portability is essentials, and power is not always available. Robust and reliable with excellent welding characteristics.

www.wellyweld.com

 

[Erie Fred]

Since an inverter welder is actually powered by DC inside, it should be fairly easy to run a generic MIG or Arc welder from a high-voltage battery. Simply replace the mains power cable and bridge rectifier with a 320 volt stack of Li-ion cells...!
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I agree 100%.
Give it a try.

 

[Robotstar5]

After spending time sorting out extension leads to power a welder on a breakdown at work I suggested the Lorch battery welder would be a good idea so they bought half a dozen (one for each maintenance bay) at about £2k each I thought it was a big investment until my boss said that breakdowns were costed at £30k a minute so saving even a minute would pay for them.

 

[eddie49]

Since an inverter welder is actually powered by DC inside, it should be fairly easy to run a generic MIG or Arc welder from a high-voltage battery. Simply replace the mains power cable and bridge rectifier with a 320 volt stack of Li-ion cells...!

I agree 100%. Give it a try.

The electric van that I'm driving - a 2001 Citroen Berlingo Electrique - uses a DC motor powered by 27 SAFT 6-volt wet NiCad blocks, nominally 162 volts. When fully-charged it reaches 184v, which is probably just enough to test-drive the nominal 325v DC bus of a small inverter MIG. I also have Mitsubishi i-MiEV batteries with 88 Li-Ion cells, and at 3.7v each, that's exactly 325v, which would be perfect. Additionally, a couple of Range Rover Sport Hybrid packs, but with 108 cells, making 400v, they would have to be cut down a bit. So I just need to get the time, put on my HV PPE, and give it a try....