Fronius ‘cordless’ arc /dc tig unit

  1. pressbrake1

    pressbrake1 Member

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    1,323
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    F4EAF738-3120-40D2-8C11-DF7032FDC062.png apologies if this has been discussed before.
    Saw this on my Instagram feed and im kind of interested for small site repairs.
    Less kit and noise and no expensive weld gen to get nicked when you’re up a ladder out of sight .
    Happened to a pal working away then suddenly quiet and no power!
    Sorry no advertising intended just took screenshot
     
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  2. Shedendman

    Shedendman Member

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    3,591
    east sussex
  3. hotponyshoes Member

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    I like the idea of it, seen one in action at a agri suppliers demo but they were something like £3k and the poor guy was not having much luck selling them to farmers at that.
    It was running 3mm+ rods with no problem.

    If I remember correctly the battery pack is inside the unit and what I thought was an external pack was just a big charger.
    I got the impression you need to run it via the charger once the inbuilt battery is flat and there was no spare/additional battery option.
    The guy told me you could do about a dozen rods but didn't seem to think the duty cycle on the machine was enough to run it all day anyway.

    I like the idea of just having one in the van, charged and ready to go. About the only job I think I would use it for is welding farm gates in fields which is a job I try to avoid getting anyway.

    I suppose one of those and a cordless grinder might be all you need if you need to trek halfway up a mountain to weld a handrail on a footpath or something but if you needed much more kit than just that then a quad bike and trailer could probably accommodate a welder 1/4 of the price and a inverter generator leaving you with some change and a generator you could use for other jobs.

    Personally, I dont have enough use for one to justify the price although I'm sure others would.
    If I did have that amount of work for it I would want to look into how many cycles the battery pack will last and the cost of replacement.

    I dont think they have been out that long and I'm sure with the way batteries are advancing they will either have more power or drop in price. Or both.
     
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  4. pressbrake1

    pressbrake1 Member

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    Well that price renders it pointless and not having a second battery makes it more painful.
     
  5. pressbrake1

    pressbrake1 Member

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    essex england
    £1000 and maybe
     
  6. eLuSiVeMiTe

    eLuSiVeMiTe Forum Supporter

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  7. Memmeddu

    Memmeddu Member

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    This unit is something special because it's battery powered.
    But batteries doesn't last in the time so here we have two major issues
    First
    Generally speaking
    inverters and and electronics doesn't last in the time because it's something calculated
    Electronics will fail at some point
    Second
    Batteries have a life time that depends on the charging and discharging cicles but in this case we have also the high current drain from each cell

    So basically before to even think to buy one of this toys (only 10 3.2mm 7018 rods for each charge) there are to take in consideration various elements
    One of this is
    How long do I will take to have my money back ?
    I think that this unit does cost something like 5000 euros or something in those lines
    And you cannot even think to use it every day because isn't worth to much expensive because
    ok this work will take 30 electrodes (measure unit invented right now) 3 charges and 3 discharges
    Maybe you are taken by the task and you don't care about the batteries and you don't completely charge them etc
    The battery will suffer these abuses
    Those units are something that should be rented but not bought unless you can repaid them at the first time that you use one of those machines
    That are my thoughts about
    Having the money to buy one of this I surely use that money to buy an engine driven welder
    Yes maybe an engine driven welder will have much more expensive operational costs but a good engine driven will last forever
    I have a genset engine driven welder that is being made in 1970's , it's almost 45 years old and it runs like a train
     
  8. hotponyshoes Member

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    Going from the info in that lorch thread you could have the welder and 2 batteries for less than the fronius. Hopefully enough people will buy both of them to get some competition going and bring the development on a bit and the prices down!
     
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  9. Arclikeharrypotter Member

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    I've been using one of these units on and off for a little while now, they certainly wont be for everyone but for me having to lug 40kg+ of genset down to site, (there isnt any other way) is an pain especially when it could be for a few tacks only. Where as this its put on shoulder and go. Granted it will only weld about 6 or so full 3.2 electrodes, I think itll run off a small generator if needed.
     
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  10. hotponyshoes Member

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    Even your engine welder will fail one day.
    All other welders will fail eventually. Everything dies.

    Going off the info in the lorch thread that unit is £1500.
    3 year warranty/1000 battery cycles.

    That's £500 a year or £1.50 per charge cycle.

    If you use it only 1 time per month it costs £43 per job if it dies on the day the warranty runs out.

    If I am the only one who can get to the remote spot that needs 10mins of welding with no access for machines or a lot of effort for the farmer to get a generator out there you can guarantee I will be charging at least £100 for that job.
     
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  11. WorkshopChris Forum Supporter

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    They definitely have a place in the market, would be ideal in a manufacturing environment with machine maintenance.
    The machine and a small cylinder saves time lifting in a full-size set and running cables.
     
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  12. stuvy

    stuvy Member

    I went to there open day with @JLP this year. Was a really good day out and worth it if you bring cash as they knock the vat off and a little bit more
     
  13. pressbrake1

    pressbrake1 Member

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    1,323
    essex england
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  14. pressbrake1

    pressbrake1 Member

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    1,323
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    Just had price back on the fronius
    £2000+ drat
     
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  15. hotponyshoes Member

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    1,391
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    Somerset. Uk
    With the way batteries are developing then something like a battery pack with built-in inverter on the top might be a idea, choice of 110 or 230v
    , 16a or 32a socket so you can plug any power tool into it.
    Additionally battery packs that plug in the back for extended run time.
    You could buy one cell out of a nissan leaf or a tesla and break it down to make a few of them up.
     
  16. Memmeddu

    Memmeddu Member

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    Unfortunately also that is true
    I buried my grandmother yesterday.
    But I don't know I think that those units are not the best solution
    I will go to search for the lorch because I'm curious
    1500 £ it's way less painful
    Anyway it has surely his place but I had experience of death batteries because unused , that happened on my Hitachi drill but that can happen also with the cordless welder
    I just would like to help avoiding to waste money because I understand that many times it's difficult to gain profit from a new tool
     
  17. Arclikeharrypotter Member

    Messages:
    1,015
    Location:
    Northampton
    The lorch isnt 1500 you're looking at 2500 off the shelf price if you go by what wasp is selling them for. Plus they are different with fronius having in built battery and ability to run of power source, where as the lorch has separate battery.
     
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  18. Munkul Member

    Messages:
    871
    Cumbria, UK
    Lorch 160 control pro plus battery is £2230 inc VAT. Shopping around dealers will get a better rate than that, I would have thought. Cheaper than the Fronius, whether it's better or not is probably subjective.

    Either way, to spend that kind of money on a battery welder you need to be doing a lot of a specific kind of work to justify it. Either rapid response breakdown repairs, or working off-grid where it's faster and easier than a genset.
     
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  19. eddie49 Member

    Mains-powered inverter Arc, TIG, and MIG welders all feed the AC mains straight into a bridge rectifier, followed by some big electrolytic capacitors. This produces a 325v DC bus, which runs the machine.
    So it would make sense to get a 325v rechargeable battery pack. This may sound like a high voltage, but it's nothing compared to an electric car, which can have hundreds of Li-Ion cells in series. With nominal 3.7v cells, you would need 88 in series.
    Ignoring losses, to weld at 100 Amps with 50v OCV for 1 hour you would need 5 KWh, which is about a sixth of the battery in a Nissan Leaf.
    A good Li-Ion battery can hold 200 Wh per Kg, so the battery would weigh a minimum of 25 Kg.

    In future, the old PTO or "under-hood alternator welder" could easily be integrated into an electric van... imagine a Nissan e-NV200 with a 16A Commando socket and two Dinse sockets... !
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
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  20. Brad93

    Brad93 M J B Engineering

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