Epoxy Primer Choices and PPE

[JonnyAlpha]

Hi;

Based on the info below I have a a couple of questions:
1. Which Epoxy should I use for the inside of the car and the external bodywork:
(a) Jotun Epoxy (which one)?
(b) Lechler Epoxy (which one)?
(c) HMG Epoxy (which one)?

2. Which Epoxy Primers can be sprayed without an Air Fed Mask?

I have been using Jotun 87 for the underside of my Mini after a rebuild, I hand bushed and smoothed with a roller. So far I have only done the rear end under the boot and heel board and inside the boot floor which had been half replaced and the rest taken back to bare metal.
I have just enough Jotun 87 for the rest of the underside and will brush / roller it on.

I now need some Epoxy Primer for the inside of the car itself (the floor, tops of rear wheel arches, inside companion bins and toe board) and for the external bodywork.

I understand that the Jotun 87 is too thick for external body work and was about to either buy some HMG Epoxy Primer from my local paint supplier or order some Lechler online (not sure where from yet).

I then thought that I had better check the guidelines regarding the safety of spraying Lechler or HMG Epoxy Primers.

I have sprayed the Jotun using a 3M Half Mask with ABEK1 and P3 Filters in a garage with the garage door open however need some advice on the Lechler and HMG.

The top coat will be cellulose Almond Green and the roof will be Engine Enamel (I have some left) or Cellulose Old English White.

I have a Snapon 50Ltr 2.5HP Compressor with a FMT LVLP Gravity Fed Gun with 2 x Needles (1.3 and 1.8mm)

 

[keithski122]

Not necessarily a recommendation but I used lechler epoxy and a gerson half mask(not air fed) to paint my beetle with in a single garage at home.
When it came to top coat I used base and clear two pack in a booth with extraction also using a gerson half mask.I would never go back to celly after having so many problems with it.

 

[richie00boy]

The Jotun products don't lay down as well for external bodywork. Not used HMG epoxy only their cellulose and basecoat.

Your existing mask will be fine for epoxy which requires A1P2 as a minimum. Be worth buying a new filter though as the charcoal has probably got saturated by now.

 

[Rocketman]

There are two type of hardener available for the Lechler. If you are operating with cooler temps than the recommended the rep said use the fast hardener so it doesn't take a age to fully harden.

 

[JonnyAlpha]

Can anyone offer any confirmation on question 2:

Which Epoxy Primers can be sprayed without an Air Fed Mask?

For the inside of the boot and the car and of course the bodywork to ensure a good finish I don't want to be brushing or rollering the base primer. Does anyone have a SDS for Lechler or HMG Epoxy Primers?

 

[JonnyAlpha]

Just found this thread I started back this time last year asking about Jotun 87 and HMG Epoxy Primer and a couple of posts suggested that Epoxy Prime is not ISOCYANATE so no Air Fed Mask required, just a good Half Face Charcoal Mask and ventilation.

I still want to be sure so I need the SDS for both HMG and Lechler to be sure.

 

[langy]

Lechler TDS is here https://www.paints4u.com/pdffiles/29107.pdf

 

[JonnyAlpha]

Lechler TDS is here https://www.paints4u.com/pdffiles/29107.pdf

Thanks but I have seen the TDS but need the SDS to confirm safety aspects.

 

[marlinspike]

There was a primer thread ages ago in which a member pasted a reply from Lechler in Italy which confirmed the 29107 was non iso. I will find that and add a link.

I have been researching the Lechler 29107 for a while as it seems so highly rated and non iso, and the cheapest I found online was Express Paints. If I recall from other threads though, you need to ask for it to be tinted when buying as it comes clear.

 

[marlinspike]

http://www.paints4u.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=155&Mainselection=7

Go to this link and click on the Health and Safety doc icon and I think that's the correct document.

Also, Gerson do a mask for about £25 which they say is OK for short periods of 2k use (ie. up to a certain number of hours) if you are still a bit concerned.

If you are using the small smart repair sprayguns, I understand there is very little overspray, so shouldn't be too much product escaping into the air anyway.

 

[JonnyAlpha]

http://www.paints4u.com/ProductDetails.aspx?productID=155&Mainselection=7

Go to this link and click on the Health and Safety doc icon and I think that's the correct document.

Also, Gerson do a mask for about £25 which they say is OK for short periods of 2k use (ie. up to a certain number of hours) if you are still a bit concerned.

If you are using the small smart repair sprayguns, I understand there is very little overspray, so shouldn't be too much product escaping into the air anyway.

marlinspike - that;s the badger, thanks.
The Safety Data Sheet extract for Respiratory PPE is here:

Apply technical measures to comply with the occupational exposure limits. This should be achieved by a good general extraction and -if practically feasible- by the use of a local exhaust ventilation. If the occupational exposure limits cannot be met, in exceptional cases suitable respiratory equipment should be worn only for a short period of time.

It gives the occupational exposure limits however how to calculate these in practice is beyond me :-)

From what I have researched most if not all Epoxy Primers appear to be Non Isocyanate and as long as you use in a ventilated area with a decent mask you should be OK.
I have a 3M 7000 Half Mask with ABEK1 Organic / Inorganic Main Filter and an additional P3 particulate filter fitted so I'm sure this should be OK.

The only area with restricted ventilation will be when I spray inside the car itself however I will hopefully have the car on wheels by then and may do it outside.

 

[JonnyAlpha]

Lastly, just about to order Lechler from either Express Paints or Paints4U, any preference?
Also what's the thinners mixing ratio for spraying, looks like 10%?

A little confused regarding which one to get:
Express Paints sells 1L Epoxy with 200ml Hardener but according to the SDS (Obtained from Paints4U) says 1000ml to 500ml Hardener?
Also I have read that unless you specify a colour it comes in clear, or am I confused with another manufacturer?
The Express paints Lechler is Green Ti (is this green tint?)
The Paints4U comes in a paints4U tin??

 

[langy]

Lastly, just about to order Lechler from either Express Paints or Paints4U, any preference?
Also what's the thinners mixing ratio for spraying, looks like 10%?

A little confused regarding which one to get:
Express Paints sells 1L Epoxy with 200ml Hardener but according to the SDS (Obtained from Paints4U) says 1000ml to 500ml Hardener?
Also I have read that unless you specify a colour it comes in clear, or am I confused with another manufacturer?
The Express paints Lechler is Green Ti (is this green tint?)
The Paints4U comes in a paints4U tin??

Thinners for Epoxy is 10%
The Green TI is a 5-1 high build primer, very good it is too but its not an Epoxy which is a 2-1, Just get it from Paints4U and ask them to tint it to your colour of choice.

 

[marlinspike]

Think this is the Lechler epoxy at Express Paints:

http://www.express-paints.co.uk/epoxy-primer-29107/

Lots of people use Paints4U though and they sound helpful so I would get everything from the same place, perhaps over the phone rather than through the website, so you can be sure you are getting the right stuff.

 

[ronan]

Don't be tempted to buy HB body epoxy primer. I had a litre of it here and used it to brush under a grit blasted bike mudguard last week. Its still tacky, even though i mixed it as per the instructions.

 

[Rocketman]

Don't be tempted to buy HB body epoxy primer. I had a litre of it here and used it to brush under a grit blasted bike mudguard last week. Its still tacky, even though i mixed it as per the instructions.

That's bad ronan. I used Lechler in sub 10 degree conditions with their standard hardener and it was touch dry with 30mins. I was pretty impressed for saying how cold it was.

 

[ronan]

Exactly rocketman, i used a good epoxy before and it was like a rock the following day. I went over this HB body stuff yesterday with a hot gun to see if i could get it to cure. Its a pita.

 

[langy]

Exactly rocketman, i used a good epoxy before and it was like a rock the following day. I went over this HB body stuff yesterday with a hot gun to see if i could get it to cure. Its a pita.

I've tried all the epoxys over the years and found the Lechlar to be far the best, trouble is people try cheaper even after recommendations then wonder why they get problems.

 

[Daz1968]

I used HB Body epoxy and it was fine, sanded really easily as well then top coated with gloss. Although will probably try Lechlar on my next project

 

[richie00boy]

Don't be tempted to buy HB body epoxy primer. I had a litre of it here and used it to brush under a grit blasted bike mudguard last week. Its still tacky, even though i mixed it as per the instructions.

The problem is likely to be the temperature. Epoxy needs a constant 15 degrees Celsius to cure properly. And if the temperature has dropped below 5 degrees within a day or so of application the cure will never finish even if you heat gun it.

Certainly around here the last couple of weeks it has not been warm enough to use epoxy.