electrolytic rust removal

[bigegg]

So, genuine question, is there a common ingredient/chemical component in them?

And what does Mrs E think about that? Assuming she knows.....

Washing soda in common
and she dont mind

 

[MattF]

So, genuine question, is there a common ingredient/chemical component in them?

Just had a peek at the MSDS for Daz. Around <20% sodium carbonate, <10% sodium carbonate peroxide, <5% citric acid. Those are the main ingredients of interest.

 

[winchman]

Just back from my local Home and Bargain
http://www.homebargains.co.uk/
They sell this for 65p for a 1KG bag
http://www.dri-pak.co.uk/cleaning-products/soda-crystals/
I assume its just Sodium Carbonate?
Looking forward to trying it.

 

[Henrik]

Basically any electrolyte will work for the process, doesn't need to be anything in particular as long as it forms an electrolyte.


Also, regarding the black or red cable conundrum; I remember it with the little rhyme "black to the part you want to get back"

 

[justin]

Could an old gas bottle be used for this? I have a few hanging about, and no use for a log burner or rocket stove.

 

[bigegg]

Could an old gas bottle be used for this? I have a few hanging about, and no use for a log burner or rocket stove.

Yes.
As the sacrificial anode.
Itll get eaten through tho, so no good as the tank.

 

[MattF]

As Bigegg says, not worth the trouble. Tried it, and that bottle is now a plant pot for an apple tree.

 

[Screwdriver]

This thread reminded me I made a short video of some electrolysis during the restoration of an old mitre trimmer. I should warn you, while there may be some pearls of wisdom contained within it it's basically me just rambling.

WARNING: Do not operate machinery while watching this video. Side effects may include drowsiness, nausea and vomiting.

I warned you....


Screwd.

PS already referred to in this very thread. #75

 

[Maker]

So, genuine question, is there a common ingredient/chemical component in them?

You need a salt. When it dissolves it water it dissociates into ions which allow move around in the water, allowing it to conduct.

In the case of washing soda you get sodium+ ions and carbonate- ions.

You shouldn't use table salt because it forms chlorine- ions, which are more reactive than oxygen so bubbles formed at the anode would be chlorine gas, which is, of course, much more dangerous than oxygen.

 

[MattF]

The main reason for sticking with the alkalis is that they're relatively safe and not detrimental to the piece. (Makers point about generating gasses you really don't want is another reason too ). For example, you can leave a part suspended in the solution even if the setup isn't running, and know you won't come back to it a week later and find it corroding away merrily. Saying that, read online and you'll see no end of bunkum even on the subject of that. Things like bicarb aren't viable, according to a lot. Honestly makes me wonder if a lot out there actually try anything for themselves, else whether they just believe everything they read.

The simple thing with electrolysis, IMHO, is experimentation. The second thing is to take anything you read online with a large pinch of salt, even on this thread. Just because someone says something is true does not make it so, so rely on your own judgement and experience once you start using the setup, and don't be afraid to experiment. Just make sure you experiment on pieces you're willing to lose. That's where having a stack of pieces which are so far gone as to make them worthless/useless comes in handy. You can't ruin what's already ruined.

 

[Wendelspanswick]

The main reason for sticking with the alkalis is that they're relatively safe and not detrimental to the piece. (Makers point about generating gasses you really don't want is another reason too ). For example, you can leave a part suspended in the solution even if the setup isn't running, and know you won't come back to it a week later and find it corroding away merrily. Saying that, read online and you'll see no end of bunkum even on the subject of that. Things like bicarb aren't viable, according to a lot. Honestly makes me wonder if a lot out there actually try anything for themselves, else whether they just believe everything they read.

The simple thing with electrolysis, IMHO, is experimentation. The second thing is to take anything you read online with a large pinch of salt, even on this thread. Just because someone says something is true does not make it so, so rely on your own judgement and experience once you start using the setup, and don't be afraid to experiment. Just make sure you experiment on pieces you're willing to lose. That's where having a stack of pieces which are so far gone as to make them worthless/useless comes in handy. You can't ruin what's already ruined.

When you say take it with a large pinch of salt, would Amethyst Bamboo* salt be OK or can I get away with plain table salt?

*http://themeadow.com/products/amethyst-bamboo-9x-coarse-korean-sea-salt?variant=1283785740

 

[Screwdriver]

Table salt is sodium chloride and if you use it in electrolysis, you get hydrogen gas, chlorine gas and sodium hydroxide (in solution). A byproduct may even be sodium chlorate. None of which is the sort of thing you want to breath or dump in the garden. The solution os also highly corrosive and I dread to think how quickly the part will flash rust once your done, assuming you survive.

S.

 

[MattF]

When you say take it with a large pinch of salt, would Amethyst Bamboo* salt be OK or can I get away with plain table salt?

*http://themeadow.com/products/amethyst-bamboo-9x-coarse-korean-sea-salt?variant=1283785740

The cheap, common stuff, obviously. The expensive stuff would only warrant a slight pinch.

 

[Richie mac]

Having followed this thread with some interest I found myself ahead of my work midweek and decided to build one for myself I had a new unused 5 gallon bucket kicking around and all the appropriate materials so set about it trying to be clever haha....... I had an ancient flange ring laying around so welded my 3 anode pieces inside evenly spaced so it all fits snugly inside the bucket with the ring on top & I was quite happy with it all, until.....
I put a scrap test piece in connect it all & power it up..... All good for a couple of mins then my battery charger cuts out!!!!! Tried a couple of Times then gave up in disgust lol So what am I doing wrong could it be the way i built it or my charger or am I missing something silly? Cheers fellas

 

[Richie mac]

It's a gunson 77045..... Suspect maybe the overload protection kicking in

 

[colnerov]

Put a bulb in series, it will limit the current. I was told 2.2w but you can experiment.

 

[Screwdriver]

Or use a more diluted electrolyte. If you are drawing more than a couple of amps, you don't need it to conduct so well if your charger isn't up to it. Make up for a reduced current by leaving it overnight.

 

[Turbo]

Only thing that you can really get wrong is to mix up the leads on the charger. I was trying to clean up a lightly rusted item & ended up turning it into something resembling a sieve after an overnight cleaning! Ironically the item was the casing of a battery charger I was cleaning up to use for my electrolysis tank!

Has anyone tried cleaning aluminium using this process? Might be an easy way to strip alloy wheels.

 

[MattF]

Aluminium is hit and miss as to whether it cleans or not. Might as well just use a strong caustic solution on it. It's a more reliable method.

 

[Screwdriver]

Only thing that you can really get wrong is to mix up the leads on the charger. I was trying to clean up a lightly rusted item & ended up turning it into something resembling a sieve after an overnight cleaning! Ironically the item was the casing of a battery charger I was cleaning up to use for my electrolysis tank!

Has anyone tried cleaning aluminium using this process? Might be an easy way to strip alloy wheels.

LOL. Yeah, even when you're being careful it's easy to swap the connections over, especially if you're using coloured wire to patch up the positive/negative connections and choose the right length wire rather than the right colour!

As for aluminium, you'll want to try it on scrap first whether you're using electrolysis or caustic. Aluminium is incredibly delicate compared to steel and can completely dissolve! I did that once with an old alloy handled meat cleaver, I wouldn't dump any engine parts or crankcases in there without doing a test first. You'll lose any shiny surfaces on the wheels and probably open up the bearing fit.

S.