Electric cars and the grid..... it has begun.

[PhillipM]

1. But not if you want to go far AND fast. The range of an EV plummets if you use your right foot with any weight behind it.
Plus, to get a FAST Milk Float, you need to spend big. Very big.

It really doesn't, at all. Motor and battery efficiency doesn't drop much at all with high throttle to get up to speed. They're no different than an ICE being hoofed about in terms of the percentage change generally. Probably better because of the regen.

 

[daleyd]

I’ve got a ev, it was my only chance of surviving these fuel costs.
It’s low range but 100miles a day commute is in its range and I charge at home with solar.
I’ve got a old diesel on SORN just Incase I need to go anywhere further afield as I’m never going to be able to afford a long range vehicle
I’ve only come across one manufacturer specific charge point and that’s Tesla and that’s part of their attraction. There’s a few different suppliers but not manufacturer dependent like pod point

You call ev’s milk floats. They’re faster , more comfortable and more reliable than (German) ice cars.

Being in machine tool repair I’m much happier with inverters and high power motive units than a scabby old derv with expensive unreliable injectors and the engines life dependant upon a rubber band driving the cam!

we are the same - we spent the money we were going to spend anyway on a diesel/petrol car and got an EV for my wife. Currently it’s cheap to run but to be honest even if they said it would cost the same to run as an equivalent ICE I wouldn’t go back now. Had no problem with longer trips, no range anxiety. It gets charged once a week for about 4 hours if it’s just used in the week for my missus commute and ferrying the kids around (which adds about 120 miles range during cheap period electricity), obviously we charge more often if we do more miles - which we do as more often than not as we actively take this car rather than my car because it’s so comfortable and quiet.

It’s quiet, comfy, surprisingly quick feeling, though the raw figures suggest otherwise and spacious (no gear stick, transmission tunnel etc).

 

[GRW]

I’m just curious to your experience in driving and day to day life with one

Personally - none. But then I don't need to gave a brain haemorrhage to know I don't want of those either

I do know a guy who has been forced to adopt an EV as a work vehicle, as he works for a Turbine Co. He suffers a lot from "range anxiety" as some of his site visit round trips leave him no margin to get him home.
Funnily - he's going to Wind Farm sites - and they don't have EV charging points - which amuses me greatly.

 

[GRW]

we are the same - we spent the money we were going to spend anyway on a diesel/petrol car and got an EV for my wife. Currently it’s cheap to run but to be honest even if they said it would cost the same to run as an equivalent ICE I wouldn’t go back now. Had no problem with longer trips, no range anxiety. It gets charged once a week for about 4 hours if it’s just used in the week for my missus commute and ferrying the kids around (which adds about 120 miles range during cheap period electricity), obviously we charge more often if we do more miles - which we do as more often than not as we actively take this car rather than my car because it’s so comfortable and quiet.

It’s quiet, comfy, surprisingly quick feeling, though the raw figures suggest otherwise and spacious (no gear stick, transmission tunnel etc).

It's great if you like it etc. However, I do wonder how much you had to spend to get your luvverly EV, and how much it'll depreciate over (say) 5-years (given the cost of replacement battery packs etc) - and how your overall Spend/Mile will actually work out once you factor in purchase cost v resale/trade-in value, as well as running costs.

Bearing in mind you can get a runabout for a couple of K, then it's very hard to top that in overall vehicle ownership - even if its not very good on fuel.

The OH's 2011 Kia Rio cost £3200 about 3-years or so back with 35k miles on it. Bearing in mind that she does little mileage as able to work from home quite a bit - so like your EV - it doesn't use much fuel. But it can't depreciate by much, cos it didn't cost much, and it's (so far) been utterly reliable and a pleasant little car to drive - and we know we could go from Wales to anywhere, any distance in it tomorrow - and never have to concerned about range, refuelling or refuelling time.

I can't see current mainstream EV's (given their cost) being a low-cost vehicle per mile and justifying their expenditure v ICE options overall for the cost-conscious motorist when there are so many pre-owned ICE vehicles available.
What will change that IMO, will be legislation and draconian taxation, with restriction on use (or making ICE use widely Verboten) forcing drivers to spend a lot more money - in other words make any form of motorised transport beyond the finances of a large part of the current car owner demographic.

 

[daleyd]

It's great if you like it etc. However, I do wonder how much you had to spend to get your luvverly EV, and how much it'll depreciate over (say) 5-years (given the cost of replacement battery packs etc) - and how your overall Spend/Mile will actually work out once you factor in purchase cost v resale/trade-in value, as well as running costs.

Bearing in mind you can get a runabout for a couple of K, then it's very hard to top that in overall vehicle ownership - even if its not very good on fuel.

The OH's 2011 Kia Rio cost £3200 about 3-years or so back with 35k miles on it. Bearing in mind that she does little mileage as able to work from home quite a bit - so like your EV - it doesn't use much fuel. But it can't depreciate by much, cos it didn't cost much, and it's (so far) been utterly reliable and a pleasant little car to drive - and we know we could go from Wales to anywhere, any distance in it tomorrow - and never have to concerned about range, refuelling or refuelling time.

I can't see current mainstream EV's (given their cost) being a low-cost vehicle per mile and justifying their expenditure v ICE options overall for the cost-conscious motorist when there are so many pre-owned ICE vehicles available.
What will change that IMO, will be legislation and draconian taxation, with restriction on use (or making ICE use widely Verboten) forcing drivers to spend a lot more money - in other words make any form of motorised transport beyond the finances of a large part of the current car owner demographic.

You miss my point - we were buying a new car anyway so we would have spent the same amount on an ICE vehicle.

If I was to trade it in it’s currently worth a fair bit more than what we bought it for 6 months ago as EVs are in quite some demand, so I guess it’s doing ok. The battery has an 8 year warranty so it’ll see me right for a while yet, but thanks for your concern

The car we got rid of had an automatic gearbox which have been known to fail and cost many thousands to repair or replace, and after 3 years you are on your own with those. So swings and roundabouts I guess though I’m not trying to convince anyone to buy one, just putting forward some counter arguments to the many myths that are going around.

 

[willie.macleod]

It's great if you like it etc. However, I do wonder how much you had to spend to get your luvverly EV, and how much it'll depreciate over (say) 5-years (given the cost of replacement battery packs etc) - and how your overall Spend/Mile will actually work out once you factor in purchase cost v resale/trade-in value, as well as running costs.

Those who bought EVs 5 years ago are likely to get the same money they spent on them back today due to the changing marketplace. As they were buying them the naysayers were busy telling them they'd need a new battery pack soon, massive depreciation etc. In the meantime, those purchasers benefited from lots of free charging (most of which is now gone), no road tax and low servicing costs over the 5 years and have a cost per mile far lower than the cheapest bangeromics expert can manage.... those days are gone, we're all going to be paying more for our personal transport now. The big push to public transport has started, young folk up to 21 and those over 60 get free bus travel in Scotland now. Driving lessons and tests are very hard to get here as well, long lead times for both.

 

[GRW]

You miss my point - we were buying a new car anyway so we would have spent the same amount on an ICE vehicle.

If I was to trade it in it’s currently worth a fair bit more than what we bought it for 6 months ago as EVs are in quite some demand, so I guess it’s doing ok. The battery has an 8 year warranty so it’ll see me right for a while yet, but thanks for your concern

The car we got rid of had an automatic gearbox which have been known to fail and cost many thousands to repair or replace, and after 3 years you are on your own with those. So swings and roundabouts I guess though I’m not trying to convince anyone to buy one, just putting forward some counter arguments to the many myths that are going around.

I am happy to concede that a modern EV is quiet, refined, very easy to drive etc. Its the compromises and most certainly the large amount of money that they cost to buy.
But then - as you were buying a new vehicle anyway - then its fair to say that the overall cost/year of your motoring - cannot gave been the primary reason for purchase.

But then, nothing would possess me (even if I was willing to spend a ludicrous sum that'd get me an EV) on a new ICE either!

Current cars (of any powerplant) are excessively over-complicated, over-burdened with tech that might please a millennial Gamer/Nerd - and far too locked-up, making you completely at the mercy of their dealer network's charges, and far too unreliable and expensive to maintain - for me to contemplate.

Yes I could lease - but paying maybe 4k a year to have a limited-mileage car - is not any kind of economical motoring - but I see that some people go that way because the woeful reliability of recent cars frightens them off purchasing a (say) 3/4 year-old used car.

Until the B'stards conspire to prevent the use of older vehicles, then I'd far rather spend money on one if those. IMO it's worth spending a tidy some on a very tidy 15-20 year-old car (I'd you could find the mythical low-miles, FSH, cosseted 1-owner car) - as its almost certainly going to prove more reliable, easier/cheaper to maintain, and offer the most economical motoring than pretty much any other option.

 

[GRW]

Those who bought EVs 5 years ago are likely to get the same money they spent on them back today due to the changing marketplace. As they were buying them the naysayers were busy telling them they'd need a new battery pack soon, massive depreciation etc. In the meantime, those purchasers benefited from lots of free charging (most of which is now gone), no road tax and low servicing costs over the 5 years and have a cost per mile far lower than the cheapest bangeromics expert can manage.... those days are gone, we're all going to be paying more for our personal transport now. The big push to public transport has started, young folk up to 21 and those over 60 get free bus travel in Scotland now. Driving lessons and tests are very hard to get here as well, long lead times for both.

Willie. My LDV Convoy Camper (2000) cost 2k nearly 10-years-ago, and I've spent another maybe 2k keeping it roadworthy in that time. Currently these are fetching rather more than I paid.

My car is an 02 Yaris. Bought maybe 5-years-ago for £1200. Its had some znti-roll bar bushes which I fitted myself (I think £40). That's it. It's probably worth what I paid for it.

Sorry - but there's not much cheaper motoring than that.

 

[daleyd]

I am happy to concede that a modern EV is quiet, refined, very easy to drive etc. Its the compromises and most certainly the large amount of money that they cost to buy.
But then - as you were buying a new vehicle anyway - then its fair to say that the overall cost/year of your motoring - cannot gave been the primary reason for purchase.

But then, nothing would possess me (even if I was willing to spend a ludicrous sum that'd get me an EV) on a new ICE either!

Current cars (of any powerplant) are excessively over-complicated, over-burdened with tech that might please a millennial Gamer/Nerd - and far too locked-up, making you completely at the mercy of their dealer network's charges, and far too unreliable and expensive to maintain - for me to contemplate.

Yes I could lease - but paying maybe 4k a year to have a limited-mileage car - is not any kind of economical motoring - but I see that some people go that way because the woeful reliability of recent cars frightens them off purchasing a (say) 3/4 year-old used car.

Until the B'stards conspire to prevent the use of older vehicles, then I'd far rather spend money on one if those. IMO it's worth spending a tidy some on a very tidy 15-20 year-old car (I'd you could find the mythical low-miles, FSH, cosseted 1-owner car) - as its almost certainly going to prove more reliable, easier/cheaper to maintain, and offer the most economical motoring than pretty much any other option.

No you are indeed correct as when we put the order in electric was going up and diesel was still relatively cheap, so any savings were marginal - we bought it on the strength of a test drive. As it happens we have managed to get onto a decent EV tariff and fuel has gone up so it’s in our favour but it easily might not have been - but we still would have bought one.

Now, I don’t earn a ridiculous amount of money but i do spend a lot of time away from home with work, sometimes for long periods - so to me bangernomics don’t add up, my missus wants something that’s modern and reliable and to me it makes sense to see to it that she has a decent vehicle (preferably with a warranty so I don’t have to worry about getting stuff fixed when I’m not there) to ferry her and the kids around in when I’m not there. Not that I particularly need to justify it to anyone, but there you go.

I’m not going to slate anyone for buying whatever vehicle they feel is right for their own circumstances, I do however expect the same courtesy to be extended this way.

I’m sorry that you feel somehow hard done to that EV manufacturers didn’t introduce ready made secondhand models when they started building them in the last couple of years but we are where we are - in 10 years time we will find out what they are worth as well used vehicles, rather than falsely speculating that they will all be worthless in 3 years with batteries that will barely get you to the end of the road

 

[mtt.tr]

@GRW can't help but think EVs are not for you, that doesn't mean they work for no one


Should you not frame your point as "I", most infact majority of people do not do 200miles journeys in a day

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Those who bought EVs 5 years ago are likely to get the same money they spent on them back today due to the changing marketplace. As they were buying them the naysayers were busy telling them they'd need a new battery pack soon, massive depreciation etc. In the meantime, those purchasers benefited from lots of free charging (most of which is now gone), no road tax and low servicing costs over the 5 years and have a cost per mile far lower than the cheapest bangeromics expert can manage.... those days are gone, we're all going to be paying more for our personal transport now. The big push to public transport has started, young folk up to 21 and those over 60 get free bus travel in Scotland now. Driving lessons and tests are very hard to get here as well, long lead times for both.

And the finger to small businesses that rely on transport for their living?

 

[brewdexta]

One for @fizzy it's one of the science tents at the Bluedot festival last weekend. I did ask the staff if Vince was about, they said he was busy showing a young nubile graduate his hafnium control rod around the back

 

[Wozzaaah]

@GRW can't help but think EVs are not for you, that doesn't mean they work for no one


Should you not frame your point as "I", most infact majority of people do not do 200miles journeys in a day

As in I will never own a “Milk Float”?
Another pointless moaning thread imho. If you don’t like EVs, don’t buy one. Simple as that.
It’s all very well saying Ooh… the grid won’t be able to cope etc. but there’s no evidence of that yet. Remember the Y2K bug that was going to destroy the world? Yeah…. it was disastrous wasn’t it?…..
My commute is <6 miles each way, perfectly suited to an EV, but my little 1.2 turbo triple Pug 308 has to do as money doesn’t permit….,, at the moment.

 

[daleyd]

As in I will never own a “Milk Float”?
Another pointless moaning thread imho. If you don’t like EVs, don’t buy one. Simple as that.
It’s all very well saying Ooh… the grid won’t be able to cope etc. but there’s no evidence of that yet. Remember the Y2K bug that was going to destroy the world? Yeah…. it was disastrous wasn’t it?…..
My commute is <6 miles each way, perfectly suited to an EV, but my little 1.2 turbo triple Pug 308 has to do as money doesn’t permit….,, at the moment.

 

[fizzy]

One for @fizzy it's one of the science tents at the Bluedot festival last weekend. I did ask the staff if Vince was about, they said he was busy showing a young nubile graduate his hafnium control rod around the back

View attachment 357278

I wish

 

[eLuSiVeMiTe]

Remember the Y2K bug that was going to destroy the world

Now imagine if they didn't spot the oversight and the many versions of it since. It would have caused chaos
Hard work by many people fixed that issue as I'm sure the grid and related services will.

There cutting it bloody fine with a decent open source charging platform rolled out country wide thought aren't they.

Even standardised batteries would be a good start.

 

[fizzy]

And of course I would buy an electric car. If it is powered by nice CHEAP electricity.

 

[daleyd]

And of course I would buy an electric car. If it is powered by nice CHEAP electricity.

Ours is, it works out at around 2.5p/mile (ok, it’s more like 9p if we have to charge in the day - which we never have…) - can you get that from an ICE

 

[brewdexta]

I wasn't paying attention and got stung for £2.10 a litre at Watford gap services today for the normal diesel - doh!

 

[GRW]

@GRW can't help but think EVs are not for you, that doesn't mean they work for no one


Should you not frame your point as "I", most infact majority of people do not do 200miles journeys in a day

Perhaps. But I have said that EV's "window" where they make sense - is as the urban (inc suburb to city) commute - esp. so with the artifical boost that things like the ULEZ & its clones give to their appeal & viability.

I (and a great many others who are heavily reliant on personal transport for the same reasons) - live in a rural area, where journey distances for work and essentials are far greater, and where the infrastructure is more dispersed. It's also where alternative transport us either poor, sporadic, irregular to the point of being useless for commuting - or non-existent. Earnings are generally lower, travelling need (& costs) higher.
For a lot of us, the EV is neither affordable, nor suitable / fit for purpose, nor has anything like the charging points etc etc.

The "problem" (of the above being largely disregarded) seems to be that city dwellers are far less pro-car, indeed due to the negative impact of congestion etc many are "anti-car".... and of course our "Leaders" are based where? The city.

The problems of the rural dweller & the necessity of the ICE vehicle - receive little consideration or empathy - those who make the decisions for the Nation either do not know, do not comprehend, or do not care that entire rural communities depend upon affordable personal transportation.