electric boxes on stud walls question?

[owas]

ERRRRR, how on earth are the cable routed for any of those16amp sockets, so the wiring to them is safe? The 4" fan must be directly above the left hand socket. What safe routes did you use for any of the cables feeding those sockets ?????

Horizontal? Vertical? Encased in an earthed conduit, protected by a 30mA RCD ?

Nothing looks like it would comply with 17 Edition, unless you can say why . . . .

I didn't do any of the work (and haven't the faintest clue on electrics) , but the wires pass through holes drilled in the studs, 2 seperate ones for each 16 amp, and 1 circuit for the lights/fan, I'm not sure how the 13amp sockets were done, consumer unit is pictured above.

It all works fine, and the 16 amps (when they were type b's) always tripped on starting my welder up, why wouldn't they if a fault occurred?

Rcd trips before I blow a 13amp fuse too with my welder.

The 16amp sockets used to be those switch ones, wirings just been moved up to that as the socket wouldn't cover the hole left, hence why its not dropped in from the top like the 32amp is.

All this is run on a 10mm armoured cable running to the main consumer unit in the house on a separate breaker .. so im assuming that would also trip if something really f***** up.

 

[owas]

You can see how the wiring is passed through rafters there

How is it supposed to be?

Edit - im 99% sure the fan wiring drops from the rafters, through the top plate and then in to the fan, not near the 16 amp wiring

 

[T0rnado69]

i remember my sister asking me if there was anything that could be done with her mains board.
as when the fuses goes she isnt able to rewire it. she would have to wait till son came home from work and get him to do it.
i said sure you can replace the board with a newer tyre that trips the breaker instead of blowing the fuse.
so she got that sorted, but the RCD keep tripping.

turned out the back of the cooker was wired neg to earth and earth to neg.
so that got sorted and that fixed the problem.
then when the microwave that sits on the shelf above the cooker was plugged in it tripped the RCD.
that turned out to be the person who wired the double socket.
put live to L, neg to N and the earth to the metal back box.
so the socket had no earth.

well everything was ok in the end and RCD stayed on.
sister was happy...

few months later she asked me to have a look at the single socket upstairs on landing as she cant put a plug in it.
so i took a look and the safety thing that drops when earth pin goes it had broke.
so wasnt opening up the holes for L and N

so downstairs and turned off breaker for upstairs ring main.

opened up the socket and took it off.
new socket wiring positions was slightly different to the old one
and i noticed the bare wire on the live was too long
so i decided to trim it back a bit...
well when i went to cut it back the edge of the cutters touched the earth wire and it went bang.

so i went down and looked at board to see the RCD tripped and downstairs ring main too.

turns out that somewhere in the wiring of the house ring mains they had been linked.
dunno if this was down to the persons that owed the house before my sister or people before that..
but it was bloody dangerous.

so if you turn off breaker for downstairs. it would still be live because of the upstairs breaker being on.
and vice versa.

i didnt get hurt but lucky i was using insulated cutters and that it had a RCD in the board.

now even after turning off a breaker for anything. i always double check with one of these.

 

[rtbcomp]

My house had a 2 way light switch wired so that the earth connector was used as a conductor so they could use twin & earth instead of triple & earth.

 

[Robotstar5]

...so downstairs and turned off breaker for upstairs ring main.....

Unfortunately that's the problem with some DIYer's, assuming once MCB marked "X" is off, circuit "X" is dead, a sparky will verify it's dead before doing anything.

 

[Sidewinder]

i remember my sister asking me if there was anything that could be done with her mains board.
as when the fuses goes she isnt able to rewire it. she would have to wait till son came home from work and get him to do it.
i said sure you can replace the board with a newer tyre that trips the breaker instead of blowing the fuse.
so she got that sorted, but the RCD keep tripping.

turned out the back of the cooker was wired neg to earth and earth to neg.
so that got sorted and that fixed the problem.
then when the microwave that sits on the shelf above the cooker was plugged in it tripped the RCD.
that turned out to be the person who wired the double socket.
put live to L, neg to N and the earth to the metal back box.
so the socket had no earth.

well everything was ok in the end and RCD stayed on.
sister was happy...

few months later she asked me to have a look at the single socket upstairs on landing as she cant put a plug in it.
so i took a look and the safety thing that drops when earth pin goes it had broke.
so wasnt opening up the holes for L and N

so downstairs and turned off breaker for upstairs ring main.

opened up the socket and took it off.
new socket wiring positions was slightly different to the old one
and i noticed the bare wire on the live was too long
so i decided to trim it back a bit...
well when i went to cut it back the edge of the cutters touched the earth wire and it went bang.

so i went down and looked at board to see the RCD tripped and downstairs ring main too.

turns out that somewhere in the wiring of the house ring mains they had been linked.
dunno if this was down to the persons that owed the house before my sister or people before that..
but it was bloody dangerous.

so if you turn off breaker for downstairs. it would still be live because of the upstairs breaker being on.
and vice versa.

i didnt get hurt but lucky i was using insulated cutters and that it had a RCD in the board.

now even after turning off a breaker for anything. i always double check with one of these.

Whilst the non-contact voltage indicator in the picture link is better than nothing, it is not an acceptable method of proving a circuit is dead, and thus safe to work on.

 

[brightspark]

Whilst the non-contact voltage indicator in the picture link is better than nothing, it is not an acceptable method of proving a circuit is dead, and thus safe to work on.

correct
it tells u that on the instructions and anyone relying on one of them should think again and wont live long if working on electric regular .its just a basic indicator of wiring status. a set of voltage test probes should be used in conjunction with one. its not always a forgone conclusion that upstairs sockets will be seperate from downstairs circuits they can be mixed and its up to u to check

 

[Westfield-builder]

My house had a 2 way light switch wired so that the earth connector was used as a conductor so they could use twin & earth instead of triple & earth.

I have seen this done, numerous times. Too many to mention!

BUT; I would be prepared to bet that one of them was connected done by an electrician, just an idiot who thought he was clever !

 

[brightspark]

I have seen this done, numerous times. Too many to mention!

BUT; I would be prepared to bet that one of them was connected done by an electrician, just an idiot who thought he was clever !

another favourite is a borrowed neutral on the 2 way light on the landing it doesnt show up till u put in a new 17 th edition board and trips the pair of them then have to seperate the wires and run a neutral up from the downstairs lights to feed landing light

 

[Sidewinder]

another favourite is a borrowed neutral on the 2 way light on the landing it doesnt show up till u put in a new 17 th edition board and trips the pair of them then have to seperate the wires and run a neutral up from the downstairs lights to feed landing light

Ahh, but does a double RCD board actually comply with "the 17th"?...
It can be successfully argued that it does not.
However, that is a discussion for an alternative forum.

 

[wheresmejumper]

more than likely its the starting current on the wire wound transformer when u pull the trigger even though u arent welding u may have to up the breaker to a 20amp c type .i have a 3kva site transformer and it takes a 30 amp breaker out just plugging it in

You ever hear the trick of keeping the traffo as far from the supply socket as the power lead will allow?
I dont know the science behind it

 

[Sidewinder]

You ever hear the trick of keeping the traffo as far from the supply socket as the power lead will allow?
I dont know the science behind it

It's more to do with the way you lay the lead, rather than the physical distance.
However, it is not aceptable to extend a transformer primary, it is always the secondary that must be extended.

 

[Sidewinder]

correct
it tells u that on the instructions and anyone relying on one of them should think again and wont live long if working on electric regular .its just a basic indicator of wiring status. a set of voltage test probes should be used in conjunction with one. its not always a forgone conclusion that upstairs sockets will be seperate from downstairs circuits they can be mixed and its up to u to check

Yep Gs38 approved voltage indicator, proving unit, and correct safe isolation procedures, identify, prove, test, isolate, secure, test & prove every time.

 

[Robotstar5]

Yep Gs38 approved voltage indicator, proving unit, and correct safe isolation procedures, identify, prove, test, isolate, secure, test & prove every time.

I wonder how many sparkies working on LV use a proving unit every time? I've got an old Martindale PD690.

 

[brightspark]

I wonder how many sparkies working on LV use a proving unit every time? I've got an old Martindale PD690.

ive got one somwhere just test with the stick and martindale probes . its called put the probes on the live circuit and get someone to turn it off thats proof enough

 

[Sidewinder]

Well that's two 2391 practical fails if I had been your invigilator then!

Oh, and yes I was (am, though it's not 2391 anymore) down as a C&G examiner for 2391, though, I don't do much training these days, I don't have the time, and I can get more money on the tools!