Elderly Relative & Care.....

[bricol]

You need to find the right care home!

The one I found was family owned and run - the daughter had taken over from her dad. The manager had been there 40 yrs, her daughters worked there.
All food cooked from scratch on-site and smelt delicious, looked pretty good too. The place never felt, or smelt, anything other than a home.

Could visit whenever you liked - and I never ever felt any concerns over my mum's care there, from the cleaners to the owner. Had the training, the equipment, the willingness to look after residents properly, 24 hrs a day. My mum was unable to help herself over the last 2 years - had to fed, bathed, dressed, and I was often quite moved by the care showed to my mum. Even the small gestures of simply moving her hair away from her face, sitting and talking to her, watching TV with her.

When she died, we were due a refund of close to £2000 - I asked for it to be split among the staff - a small gesture. Even my money orientated sister agreed with that - she's worked in care homes and really liked this one.

The previous home - I'd happily press the button for demolition - a new build, soulless, dirty, broken, damaged equipment, food brought in from elsewhere, staff there to do the hours. I complained to the council, the care body (I forget the name) and also got my mums social worker to do so too.

 

[Morris]

This was Sandra's experience with her mum. Found a family run home that cared. They used to take them out to the local pub and other trips. Did a really good Christmas for them. Just quality.

 

[GRW]

Me and Mrs cared for her mother during the last few months of her life, she lived next door so that was a blessing. A small amount of care was provided and paid for by the local council I think. The companies that run the care are private and there to make money. They pay workers minimum wage but charge the council or individuals probably 4 times that. I've often wondered if more and better care could be got by employing someone full time. It would probably cost £100 a day for a couple of hours care going through a company. We promised we would never put mother inlaw in a care home. Horrible places.

My mum always said her idea of a living hell was a Care Home. Thankfully it never came to that.

However.... when she was terminal and stuck in hospital I found the bureaucracy was deliberately obstructive to the detriment of the wellbeing & welfare of the patient..... & it all boils down to money of course.

Hospitals end up with scores of persons suitable for home care (even end-of-life like my mother) stuck taking up valuable hospital beds because of the way the system (doesn't) work.

No-one will tell you, but I was pursuing lots if different avenues to try and fulfill her wishes to live out her remaining time at home - & running into bureaucratic dead-end after dead-end.... and was able to piece together snippets here & there.

It's depressingly simple. If a person is in Hospital, their costs are met by the Area Health Board budget.
The moment a person becomes an outpatient, their costs come out of the Local Authority budget.

That right there - is the reason for all the delays, obfuscation and manufactured delays in getting patients home.... it is in the direct interest of the LA to fudge, drag & delay and take as long as they possibly can!
It's down to which Public Body is using the same Taxpayer pot (but their allocated part if it). The Hospital wants & needs people out as soon as they are suitable for home care - & the LA does everything they can to make sure the people cannot go into community care.

Silly "rules"
The council won't start any process till a home assessment & patient needs assessment (drag feet stage 1).
Then there will be a list of essential equipment that must be in place from their dept (drag feet stage 2).
Not until every piece of kit is in place, will they even APPLY for Care Personnel (where they will have a good idea of timescales & could make applications so both we're ready at the same time, & cut literally WEEKS off the overall waiting period). Drag feet stage 3.

My mother wouldn't have made it home at all if I'd not made a massive nuisance of myself, and even drove to Shrewsbury & hired the last missing piece of equipment to remove that obstruction... as it was her best days were gone, & her time at home was effectively too late.... but it saved the Council some budget.

Discharge without all in place? You waive any/all rights to any Care Support.
Offer to hire personnel to cover until Council Care Personnel are available? You've bucked the system - all support is denied.

All with one reason - cynical, distanced bureaucrats are squabbling over which department spends public money

 

[Smallfry]

This is what SWMBO does, she is one of the Social Services "foot draggers". I will ask her the best course of action then she gets home ........ whenever that may be.

NHS want you out of the door and gone, this scenario is very normal.

 

[Smallfry]

Me and Mrs cared for her mother during the last few months of her life, she lived next door so that was a blessing. A small amount of care was provided and paid for by the local council I think. The companies that run the care are private and there to make money. They pay workers minimum wage but charge the council or individuals probably 4 times that. I've often wondered if more and better care could be got by employing someone full time. It would probably cost £100 a day for a couple of hours care going through a company. We promised we would never put mother inlaw in a care home. Horrible places.

I think you will find its more than £100 an HOUR.

 

[GRW]

This is what SWMBO does, she is one of the Social Services "foot draggers". I will ask her the best course of action then she gets home ........ whenever that may be.

NHS want you out of the door and gone, this scenario is very normal.

I wouldn't have learnt anything at all, or made what minuscule progress I did make - without there being good people who truly wanted to help, but were hamstrung by "the system"

 

[Olderisbetter]

I have had a mate in his mid 70s almost die a few months back from self neglect and no seeing a doctor for decades, most of his issues are OK now but he has been left with problems for life, the hospital disharged him with some after care but social services just left him with a load of information which he didn't understand, I took my laptop round and we started looking on age concern about what he could get help with and he seems to qualify for quite a few benefits and services, it has took a bit of financial pressure off but it would be nice if the social worker had helped with the paper work more.

 

[hotponyshoes]

Thanks all for the information. Much to ponder.

There is stuff I need to clarify and try to solidify with respect to Property (basically my folks had a "Tenants in kind" agreement where as my now deceased Mum sold a property to buy this one and put up nearly all the capital - so she owned 75% & my stepdad 25%, & her proportion of the property passed to me & my daughter in her Will).

So in theory at least, the property is not in his sole ownership - he has a 25% interest in it.
How that "stands up" in reality in respect to the protection of the property I don't know...... but I need to find out so we know where we stand.

(My hope& intention & indeed it was my late mother's wishes - was for the property to remain in the family, and for my daughter to end up with it.... but all of a sudden it dawns that events might conspire to send us on a different path).

This depends on the exact wording in your mum's will.
If you are not your mums executor then ask the executor for a copy of the probate form as well so you can see how the inheritance tax was handled at the time.

A common way of dealing with it is that your mums will was written so that her share of the property went into a trust on her death.
Your stepdad has a right to live in the house indefinitely.
So the trust is the legal owner and stepdad the beneficial owner.
The will should say when the trust ends. This may not be until his death or may be earlier, like if he goes into permanent care.

The council can not take the 75% share to pay for his care (unless mums will allowed for that?)
They could eventually force a sale to get his 25% share but a lot needs to happen before it gets that far.

Do you know who stepdad is planning to leave his share to?

You'll probably want some proper legal advice once you know exactly what the will(s) and probate say.
Generally, if you want to keep the property you would have to buy the 25% share (unless its also left to you) and you may also have further costs depending on how it was delt with at the time in regards to paying any inheritance tax due for your mum and, potentially, a capital gains tax bill for the trust if the property has increased in value since her passing and you inheriting her share.

 

[Nomad]

Personal experience:

We paid for a "panic button on a necklace + pull cord alarms in every room" package after mum fell in the lounge and was stuck between the sofa and table overnight.
Absolute nightmare and best avoided !

The alarm in every room didn't happen due to artex ceilings "we can't drill into them as they might contain asbestos" (but they did put a ceiling alarm in the bathroom - despite wet plaster where is just skimmed over the artex).

They also took over medicines as mum was losing track.
Mum used to be a nurse, the care package insisted they were 100% responsible for medication so not even an aspirin in the house. Mum has to ask for permission .. her pain had gone by the time staff brought tablets...

Staff were paid for 2 half hour "healthcare" visits every day, they often turned up, handed over tablets and left within 10 minutes.Grrr.

 

[Smallfry]

Personal experience:

We paid for a "panic button on a necklace + pull cord alarms in every room" package after mum fell in the lounge and was stuck between the sofa and table overnight.
Absolute nightmare and best avoided !

The alarm in every room didn't happen due to artex ceilings "we can't drill into them as they might contain asbestos" (but they did put a ceiling alarm in the bathroom - despite wet plaster where is just skimmed over the artex).

They also took over medicines as mum was losing track.
Mum used to be a nurse, the care package insisted they were 100% responsible for medication so not even an aspirin in the house. Mum has to ask for permission .. her pain had gone by the time staff brought tablets...

Staff were paid for 2 half hour "healthcare" visits every day, they often turned up, handed over tablets and left within 10 minutes.Grrr.

Again, this sounds the normal state of affairs. Most of it has to do with "rules and regulations".

Every time you see some case that has gone high profile on TV, and hear carp like ........"lessons will learned" and "new procedures to be implemented" blah blah, means all the caseworkers have yet MORE forms to fill in, reports to be produced, time to be taken up.

They HAVE to cover their own backs now, responsibility and accountability is high. They can easily end up in the dock if something has gone wrong, report been wrongly worded, minor detail overlooked etc. It really is ridiculous, and SWMBO spends most of her evenings typing up reports that no one will ever read (hopefully)

The caregiver time thing, depending on the agency, the time allowed includes travelling time. Its all about how much money the owners can rinse out of the government, and not much to do with the patient. The actual carer, if they are any good, know full well that most patients would like a chat, but they just don't have time.

 

[Robotstar5]

Again, this sounds the normal state of affairs. Most of it has to do with "rules and regulations".

Every time you see some case that has gone high profile on TV, and hear carp like ........"lessons will learned" and "new procedures to be implemented" blah blah, means all the caseworkers have yet MORE forms to fill in, reports to be produced, time to be taken up.

They HAVE to cover their own backs now, responsibility and accountability is high. They can easily end up in the dock if something has gone wrong, report been wrongly worded, minor detail overlooked etc. It really is ridiculous, and SWMBO spends most of her evenings typing up reports that no one will ever read (hopefully)

The caregiver time thing, depending on the agency, the time allowed includes travelling time. Its all about how much money the owners can rinse out of the government, and not much to do with the patient. The actual carer, if they are any good, know full well that most patients would like a chat, but they just don't have time.

I Used to make up mums medication into daily containers, but when the carers took over they weren't allowed to give loose tablets so we had to order the medication in blister packs with one pod per morning/night.

 

[Blobber]

Care, carers what a minefield! me old dad was as stubborn as they come when looking after me mum, the turning point was a hospital stay for mum and they wouldn't let her out until some care plan was in place so he had no choice! they supplied a proper bed, bed hoist and all the the other tackle required for a barely mobile and eventually bed bound person
Care had to be sent out to tender so the various companies could decide if they wanted the job, care was sorted to 3 visits a day with 2 care staff organised by the council but paid for by mum/dad, 50% were diamonds, 25% were average and the other 25% wanted putting back on the boat! the lady in charge at the care company wanted taking down a dark alley and stamping on, horrible woman
Care time being billed didn't add up much of the time but luckily dad being sharp as a pin he kept a diary of times, generally this meant I was on good terms with the debt recovery lady at the council as I was speaking to her most months!
After mum passed we supposedly owed the council £1600.00 for care which wasn't the case so the debt was written off

So ideally you need to find out how he feels about carers coming in initially and see how the conversation goes, if hes not keen you need to get a more crafty with persuasion which isn't nice thing to be doing but its for their own well being and safety, we did have the emergency call button but like others have said it wouldn't get worn most of the time

It does seem once you get on the radar lots of other doors seem to open up from departments you didnt know existed

 

[indy4x]

Have some recent experience with my mum. Dad has dementia, it's not really bad yet, he still knows who we are but his cognitive skills have gone as has short to medium term memory.

Mum needs help as she has significant mobility issues due to arthritis.

She is paying privately for assistance with basic tasks e.g. cleaner once a week, help with dressing getting her ready for the day which aren't massively expensive

Dad doesn't like it as he thinks he can do it but in reality it doesn't work.

They have done their wills and power of attorney and if 1 of them goes into care then they can claw back upto 50% of the property

Not all care homes are bad, my grandad had dementia and it got to the point where he was just a shell and wouldn't/couldn't walk, talk, dress himself etc, he was cared for in 1 of the Swansea Bay Health Board facilities in Tonna so same HB as @GRW is served by.

The facility and staff were absolutely amazing, really cared for the patients

Mum has found a support centre in Aberdare and they do free 1 2 1 sessions to look at their needs and what services are available locally to support mum & dad both free and paid for. I would imagine there would be something similar in the Swansea area

 

[bricol]

My mum always said her idea of a living hell was a Care Home.

My mum too. Lying on the floor having fallen again, in pain, begging me not to get her into a care home as she was okay . . .

When in reality, in the good home, I reckon she would have been so much happier - people to talk to, properly fed, drinks provided all the time, snacks continually offered, properly medicated, properly washed, hair looked after, nails done.

I strongly believe she would not have gone downhill so fast if she'd had the companionship, the conversation, activities, the looking after, that the good home provided.

 

[Smallfry]

Sorry. Its a sensitive subject here. She has just got in from work. Yet another long day, and just been yelled at by an NHS male nurse, because she objected to the discharge of one of her cases. Amongst other things, this guy has EATEN his mobile phone.

Anyway, unless you have done so already, contact the Social Services Front Door service, and his GP, but demand is such that its not easy.

 

[bricol]

Once I got past the GP (who I reckon had issues himself with over-work, from talking to a recently retired receptionist at the practice), and into the realms of the welfare people at Calderdale Council, I will admit to being quite emotional on occasion with the lovely people I spoke to on the phone who got people, equipment etc moving to look after her.

When you've been up 36 hrs, away from home having been called down by visiting carers, neighbours, as you daren't sleep much or properly as you've no idea if you mum is about to again set off up the road on a freezing winter night in her nightie and socks (or less!) to "go home". Her waking you up calling for her mum and dad . . . and having no idea where you go from here as you still need to work, look after your own lot etc . . .

Her allocated social worker, despite initially appearing useless, as a very nice lady who was over-loaded with work, trying to work with other over-loaded people in other departments.

Taking a step back, you can see they have to be careful to make sure the person rights, needs, etc are respected - to many cases of relatives shoving the person in some back room and taking all their possessions.

It's the same with visiting carers, council or private. Overloaded. Not enough of them. So you end up with the less than ideal scenario of male carer, himself getting on a bit, arriving to look after your mum. They might be contracted for 30 mins, but they probably had to spend 45 mins, an hour at the previous client for various reasons, so if your mum is now tucked up in bed within ten minutes, they are off to the next to stand a chance of reaching all of them that night.

The big thing that did not help at all - despite all suspecting my mum was vanishing into dementia, over two years, two care homes, three GPS (her original own, the one who looked after the first care home, and then the one looking after the good care home) and many hospital A&E visits and ward stays, never got her assessed by Memory Clinic, so there was no official record of her dimentia (until her death certificate) - meaning no-one newly arriving in her care knew - she sounded fully aware most of the time in the beginning.

 

[mark roberts]

I think you will find its more than £100 an HOUR.

I didnt mean a fully qualified RGN or anything. I meant if care needs were not to ellaborate. In theory it could be an ex carer from a company or even someone you trust. The training for carers is very poor. My daughters consisted of 3 days in a classroom with a woman who had been in the country 2weeks and had very broken english. And when she asked questions she was told to refer to the company handbook. Followed by a day going around with another carer. Then you chucked in the deep end. The care she gives is very basic, wake customer up, give meds, bathe, change nappies, empty catheter bags, shower or sometimes just sit with them. All this on a zero hr contract. The companies that run these things are the pits as an example she was expected to walk 4miles to empty a catheter bag which she would get paid 15mins for.

 

[Smallfry]

I didnt mean a fully qualified RGN or anything. I meant if care needs were not to ellaborate. In theory it could be an ex carer from a company or even someone you trust. The training for carers is very poor. My daughters consisted of 3 days in a classroom with a woman who had been in the country 2weeks and had very broken english. And when she asked questions she was told to refer to the company handbook. Followed by a day going around with another carer. Then you chucked in the deep end. The care she gives is very basic, wake customer up, give meds, bathe, change nappies, empty catheter bags, shower or sometimes just sit with them. All this on a zero hr contract. The companies that run these things are the pits as an example she was expected to walk 4miles to empty a catheter bag which she would get paid 15mins for.

Sounds about right. But the agency will still be charging the authorities that amount. The actual carers are always on a pittance, and to me, that is disgraceful. They should be on more than the chair polishers at the agency office.