Elderly Relative & Care.....

[GRW]

In case anyone has any pearls of wisdom......
My stepdad had to be taken in a hurry to Morriston Hospital last Wednesday 19th evening. Lower spine compression affecting his nerves etc. He'd had sciatica for 4-months then the previous night his waterworks refused to function.
Emergency back op to relieve pressure on discs/nerves.

(He's 83, been as sedentary as he could manage for decades tbh, so while his health hadn't been bad considering - he's not in great fettle. Type 2 diabetes, stents, and the usual age maladies (plus a bit overweight, poor muscle mass in legs esp, and fading mobility before the sciatica slowed his movements from "snail" to "glacial").

The General Anaesthetic and the even more sedentary week on his back, plus the OP (which was successful in that no more sciatica) - seems to have left other issues (catheter, & atm bowel function only once "properly & unaided" & nothing since release this Tuesday eve (25th).

He's also got a great deal of discomfort at the base of his oesophagus which is making eating and drinking painful so he's barely consuming much..... & to top it off he's now on a walking frame.

Plus.... he lives in an old house 3 miles from the village, and while his granddaughter & partner live next door, & us 3 miles away.... they work long hours & shifts, and we work full-time, so he's got no one at home with him most of the time.

So to summarise - he's 83, barely mobile, has issues with bladder & bowel, has pain & issues eating & drinking, seems somehow more confused, and has been turfed out of hospital with no Care Plan, no Physio or regular visits except we are told a District Nurse visit once a week (who we have heard nothing from).

My thinking is he should under his current state and his home situation - not been seen as fit for being released, and should have remained in the health care system at least until some proper assessments & care/support infrastructure was in place.

We are juggling things in crisis management atm - but that is not sustainable... in any case without his "rear plumbing" working v soon - I see we'll have to take him to Hospital again.

I'm not up to speed on this malarkey, but I'm thinking they've just punted him out the door cos they are swamped, without going through due process?

 

[Blobber]

I was sure they couldn't /wouldn't release them until some sort of care plan was in place in that situation?
Contact social services and speak to age concern to get your bearings

 

[badabec]

One view is getting him home keeps him away from community acquired pneumonia or Covid or worse.

My elderly neighbour pays for carers to come in twice a day via an agency.

 

[Barking Mat]

What local care is available ? Voluntary, public or private.

If you the family could do mornings / evenings, and get someone in at lunchtime ?

Get him an emergency button on a necklace thing, in case.

Social services help ? Age Concern etc...

Try and find a social worker, they'll know what's available.

 

[Pond frog]

Look into getting carer’s allowance it may help to pay for some assistance

​

 

[colnerov]

Look into getting carer’s allowance it may help to pay for some assistance

​

He would be applying for attendance allowance, either half or full depending on his needs at night hint hint . Anyone looking after him would be applying for carers allowance.

 

[badabec]

My neighbour has both a red emergency button and a mobile phone.
The button sits next to the TV, the mobile is always switched off.

 

[gaz1]

Plus.... he lives in an old house 3 miles from the village, and while his granddaughter & partner live next door, & us 3 miles away.... they work long hours & shifts, and we work full-time, so he's got no one at home with him most of the time.

So to summarise - he's 83, barely mobile, has issues with bladder & bowel, has pain & issues eating & drinking, seems somehow more confused, and has been turfed out of hospital with no Care Plan, no Physio or regular visits except we are told a District Nurse visit once a week (who we have heard nothing from).

My thinking is he should under his current state and his home situation - not been seen as fit for being released, and should have remained in the health care system at least until some proper assessments & care/support infrastructure was in place.

I'm not up to speed on this malarkey, but I'm thinking they've just punted him out the door cos they are swamped, without going through due process?

im not a lover of the malarkey and your more than welcome to it

but remember if they do deal with it he can be placed into the care system until every penny is drained from what they have and that includes a house sale to pay for there care

ive seen it happen often

as goes for care its up to you, you say you live 3 miles away and the grand daughter is next door do you share care do you give each other a break
ive been a carer, shared carer so i know whats involved its hard work and you dont get any thanks for it, certainly not from the system thats for sure and you dont get paid much either for doing the cared work yet they expect higher payments for someone else to do it ( something i disagree with as your saving the system costs )

as goes for health care system at least some proper assessments & care/support infrastructure was in place, they will have been informed and will check
district nurse will be apearing once its in the system but you can enquire about that yourself and make sure you record the convo

 

[northwest]

I was sure they couldn't /wouldn't release them until some sort of care plan was in place in that situation?
Contact social services and speak to age concern to get your bearings

I wouldn't hesitate to call Social Services. Stockton on Tees were absolutely brilliant with my mum. Couldn't (wouldn't) fault them. They even made time to come to the funeral

 

[bricol]

If you want to avoid some of the doom Gaz is suggesting, someone in the family needs to apply for lasting power of attorney for both finance and health - do it now while he can agree (good luck on the persuading) and sign.

Local council (Calderdale) were excellent at sorting crisis care, then ongoing care for my mum. Yes, it has to be paid for, but council will pay until you sort it. They will help with assessment, there are forms and forms to fill in - copy each one so you know what you put on the last one.

Yes, they can put a charge on the house, yes, they can take the house to cover the costs, but they don't do that in the first day, week, month, or even year. No they won't take every penny. Yes it will be annoying he will have to pay.

Yes, the care teams will be over-loaded, over-tired, but I didn't meet one who didn't care.

His local GP will be able to give you contact details for the district nurse, the social services/welfare teams.

Unless someone was with him when he was discharged, all the discharge team can go on, until proven otherwise, is the answers he will have given. Anything like my mum, he will have insisted he was capable, that family came in morning, noon and night to look after him, and that he had no wish for additional assistance, or equipment, thank you very much.

As they will only be seeing him for the first time, that's all they can do.

 

[Fazerruss]

In case anyone has any pearls of wisdom......
My stepdad had to be taken in a hurry to Morriston Hospital last Wednesday 19th evening. Lower spine compression affecting his nerves etc. He'd had sciatica for 4-months then the previous night his waterworks refused to function.
Emergency back op to relieve pressure on discs/nerves.

(He's 83, been as sedentary as he could manage for decades tbh, so while his health hadn't been bad considering - he's not in great fettle. Type 2 diabetes, stents, and the usual age maladies (plus a bit overweight, poor muscle mass in legs esp, and fading mobility before the sciatica slowed his movements from "snail" to "glacial").

The General Anaesthetic and the even more sedentary week on his back, plus the OP (which was successful in that no more sciatica) - seems to have left other issues (catheter, & atm bowel function only once "properly & unaided" & nothing since release this Tuesday eve (25th).

He's also got a great deal of discomfort at the base of his oesophagus which is making eating and drinking painful so he's barely consuming much..... & to top it off he's now on a walking frame.

Plus.... he lives in an old house 3 miles from the village, and while his granddaughter & partner live next door, & us 3 miles away.... they work long hours & shifts, and we work full-time, so he's got no one at home with him most of the time.

So to summarise - he's 83, barely mobile, has issues with bladder & bowel, has pain & issues eating & drinking, seems somehow more confused, and has been turfed out of hospital with no Care Plan, no Physio or regular visits except we are told a District Nurse visit once a week (who we have heard nothing from).

My thinking is he should under his current state and his home situation - not been seen as fit for being released, and should have remained in the health care system at least until some proper assessments & care/support infrastructure was in place.

We are juggling things in crisis management atm - but that is not sustainable... in any case without his "rear plumbing" working v soon - I see we'll have to take him to Hospital again.

I'm not up to speed on this malarkey, but I'm thinking they've just punted him out the door cos they are swamped, without going through due process?

The most imminent thing you need to do contact social care first thing and ask for some urgent support. Explain he has been released from hospital without support and you have significant concerns about his safety. Then contact the hospital through PALS and put in a complaint about an "unsafe discharge" ( important to use this exact wording).
If its an emergency tonight you can contact the social care emergency duty team and ask for help.

My wife works in the sector of local government so just shout if you need any more advice.
This should not have happened.

 

[Robotstar5]

We had something similar with my mum, she went in with a UTI and should not have been discharged from hospital, but we didn't know any better when we went to pick her up, it took 3 of us to get her in the car to bring her to our house for the night until my sister could pick her up to look after her which lasted a few days until my sister was unable to cope so we booked her into a nursing home for week which cost an arm and a leg, after that she was well enough to return home.
A few months later she was back in hospital again with the same thing, but this time we followed advice we had after the previous episode, this may sound harsh but we refused to collect her from the hospital so they had to transport her to a council run nursing home where she recovered, this triggered social services getting involved and they provided aids, emergency button etc. before she could be released.

 

[harveyp6]

If you have an AGE UK hub near you they often have people on hand who can help with this kind of thing, and if not they can point you in the right direction to get help.

 

[GRW]

Thanks all for the information. Much to ponder.

There is stuff I need to clarify and try to solidify with respect to Property (basically my folks had a "Tenants in kind" agreement where as my now deceased Mum sold a property to buy this one and put up nearly all the capital - so she owned 75% & my stepdad 25%, & her proportion of the property passed to me & my daughter in her Will).

So in theory at least, the property is not in his sole ownership - he has a 25% interest in it.
How that "stands up" in reality in respect to the protection of the property I don't know...... but I need to find out so we know where we stand.

(My hope& intention & indeed it was my late mother's wishes - was for the property to remain in the family, and for my daughter to end up with it.... but all of a sudden it dawns that events might conspire to send us on a different path).

 

[Erie Fred]

My mother & father were in a car accident 4th july 2016

We get the call to come collect them from emergency.

Dad (has full blown dementia) is crying out in pain as we move him.

Mom is almost comatose.

I spend all night up with them, feeding them pain pills.

Took the week off from work, start calling the Hospital, get the ombudsman.
She get's the head Dr of the ER and he says "bring them back in".

Dad had a broken pelvis.
Even though the ER originally did X-rays & MRI .......

 

[qwakers]

Sounds like standard American healthcare to me...

 

[Erie Fred]

Sounds like standard American healthcare to me...

That's not a very nice thing to say.

 

[jo1010]

Good suggestions already and can't add much...just (sorry for more gloom) be prepared in planning for his situation to change again....at that age it often seems that accidents, medical issues and hospital admissions can trigger mental confusion and further deterioration follows. Exactly why is unclear but it can happen, even with the right care package in place.

 

[bricol]

Get that power of attorney!

My mum entered a cycle of falls, A&E, time on ward, discharge etc until I had to ring 999 after an unsafe discharge for an emergency readmission (as advised by GP) - they finally agreed with me she needed respite care - but once she was in that council funded stay in a private care home, I couldn't get her out for 8 months! She seemed to perk up at first, but the home turned out to be pretty crap. She fell, bust her hip and went downhill. When I finally got her out and to a home I was funding near to me, she rallied a little, but the damage was done. If I could have got her out when I wanted to . . .

 

[mark roberts]

Me and Mrs cared for her mother during the last few months of her life, she lived next door so that was a blessing. A small amount of care was provided and paid for by the local council I think. The companies that run the care are private and there to make money. They pay workers minimum wage but charge the council or individuals probably 4 times that. I've often wondered if more and better care could be got by employing someone full time. It would probably cost £100 a day for a couple of hours care going through a company. We promised we would never put mother inlaw in a care home. Horrible places.