Dont we have an extinguisher engineer?

[Wedg1e]

We were approached by a customer who had apparently identified a niche market in refurbishing fire extinguishers and asked us if we could build an inspection machine to verify the neck integrity using ultrasonics and/or eddy current.
He quoted some Standard at us and we perused it for guidance.
Then I consulted a mate who as well as being a scuba diving instructor instructor (yes, that's right) also performs the periodic testing mandated for diving and breathing apparatus cylinders. He pointed out that the Standard applies to the manufacture of new cylinders, not the re-certification of used ones.
The biggest problem from the technical side is that once the cylinders have been stamped with proof marks, any of the usual inspection techniques will 'see' the stamped marks as defects in the material...

 

[Wedg1e]

i believed fire extinguishers purpose was to aid in an escape

A little-known story is that of a fire in a Sunderland theatre that directly led to the introduction of outward-opening fire exit doors with 'slam' bars...

Victoria Hall disaster - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Wedg1e]

It is.
If it safe put out the fire.

Or, as I have seen use the unit to open doors, break windows or similar.

Use it to save YOUR life.

...but whatever you do, don't hit someone with it.
When I was 21 I worked for Group 4 as a security guard. On the induction when we were told exactly what our 'powers' were, there was mention of a then-recent incident in an office block where the security guy chased a burglar up and down stairs and lifts in an attempt to detain him. The scrote threw a fire extinguisher down a flight of stairs to slow down the guard while he climbed out of a window onto a fire escape. The guard picked up the extinguisher, threw it back and knocked the scrote over the handrail, whence he fell some distance and acquired a multitude of bumps and bruises :cough:
The security guard was then prosecuted for assault, the extinguisher being deemed excessive force. No mention was made of the injuries he may or may not have sustained had the scrote succeeded in incapacitating him with the same 'weapon'.
It didn't stop some of the ex-squaddie types who worked on security from arriving on site with baseball bats, lengths of 2x2 timber or steel conduit in the boot of their car. I think their argument was that if there was going to be trouble, they weren't coming off worst.

 

[addjunkie]

We were approached by a customer who had apparently identified a niche market in refurbishing fire extinguishers and asked us if we could build an inspection machine to verify the neck integrity using ultrasonics and/or eddy current.
He quoted some Standard at us and we perused it for guidance.
Then I consulted a mate who as well as being a scuba diving instructor instructor (yes, that's right) also performs the periodic testing mandated for diving and breathing apparatus cylinders. He pointed out that the Standard applies to the manufacture of new cylinders, not the re-certification of used ones.
The biggest problem from the technical side is that once the cylinders have been stamped with proof marks, any of the usual inspection techniques will 'see' the stamped marks as defects in the material...

Thats why cylinders for diving ba sets, co2 systems etc, are inspected and hydrotested periodically. Extinguishers are so cheap now it's just not worth the time and money to inspect and hydro test.

Always remember that all fires start small, exactky when an extinguisher should be thought about, if safe to do so after raising any alarm.

 

[Wedg1e]

Thats why cylinders for diving ba sets, co2 systems etc, are inspected and hydrotested periodically. Extinguishers are so cheap now it's just not worth the time and money to inspect and hydro test.

Always remember that all fires start small, exactky when an extinguisher should be thought about, if safe to do so after raising any alarm.

Evidently this gentleman had done his sums and decided that, providing we could build him an inspection system for a suitable price, it would be worth recertifying them. Fair play to him for the recycling initiative if nothing else.
And if you ask my mate, he will give you myriad examples of the p155-poor quality of many of the diving cylinders from 'overseas' (such as valve threads tapped so far off-axis there is no thread to one side!) and multitudinous examples of previous 'maintenance' where valves with the wrong threads have been fitted, Araldite instead of O-rings etc. etc.... and people have been trusting their lives to this junk.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

4000 sqft
7 Members of staff

It's a new build & the planning/insurance are fine with the arrangement it seems

I would be straight out that door

Under the regulations you should have:
Fire extinguishers.
Fire alarm.
FRA.
Fire assembly point.

 

[Lazurus]

so, with the domestic type fire extinguisher, if the little dial shows still in the green are they ok or do they have a useful shelf life? if so how do you know how old they are. i have a collection of all sorts in the shop, all showing in the green pressure wise, i shake the powder ones periodically, BUT CAN I TRUST THEM AS ARE A FEW YEARS OLD?

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

We were approached by a customer who had apparently identified a niche market in refurbishing fire extinguishers and asked us if we could build an inspection machine to verify the neck integrity using ultrasonics and/or eddy current.
He quoted some Standard at us and we perused it for guidance.
Then I consulted a mate who as well as being a scuba diving instructor instructor (yes, that's right) also performs the periodic testing mandated for diving and breathing apparatus cylinders. He pointed out that the Standard applies to the manufacture of new cylinders, not the re-certification of used ones.
The biggest problem from the technical side is that once the cylinders have been stamped with proof marks, any of the usual inspection techniques will 'see' the stamped marks as defects in the material...

Water and powder units need to bee discharged tested, inspected and refilled every 5 years.
If they fail in one of the many stages of the above, they are to be condemned.

CO2 need a Hydrostatic test every 10 years. This testing reduces the rating of the CO2 cylinder and has to be down graded.
They should be re stamped and refilled accordingly.

Not over painted.

The only part what can be re-used after a Hydrostatic test in the cylinder. Everything else has to be new.

Just buy a new one, it is cheaper.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

or the normal prop the fire door open with it we would be knacked without them

Of course I have never done that.
N. No.No not I.


But that's how a lot of damage gets done to them.
Oh well more ££££££ for me.

 

[Wedg1e]

Water and powder units need to bee discharged tested, inspected and refilled every 5 years.
If they fail in one of the many stages of the above, they are to be condemned.


Just buy a new one, it is cheaper.

Yes, it was the inpection part that we were looking into, and the criteria thereof.
Just because cheaper is available, as a supposedly-leading nation should we always fall back on that option?

My mate performs visual, ultrasonic and hydrostatic testing, as well as internal cleaning and go/nogo of neck threads on scuba/BA tanks. Then the valves need servicing... if the tank fails the test it gets a big hole sawn in it, it does not get returned to the customer intact. Sometimes, customers complain about this
Stupidly, if you take a tank in and he looks at it (with his decades of experience) and says it WILL fail the test (e.g. it's dented or corroded), you can opt to take it elsewhere. Why the fudge would you want a second opinion on safety-critical kit?

 

[winchman]

So as an example a one man band in an old building
What would planning ask for?
Insurance I assume just extinguishers on some sort of annual inspection? ( Been Quoted £45?)
FRA, Assembly point and Alarm not required?

 

[ukracer]

On the talk of fire extinguishers...

My current employer doesn't have any as the local fire service said they don't want us fighting fires. They're 2 minutes down the road, So just GTFO of the building was their words

They are only two mins down the road when not out..or at an incident.

 

[brightspark]

best laugh i ever had was 30 years ago. a mate had a fire extinguisher and the firm where he worked were getting there extinguishers tested he asked if his would be ok the guy took a look and set it off then said it needs refilling me mate was gutted

 

[ukracer]

A few questions.
How many staff on site?
How big is the site?

The local fire service can not advice on Fire extinguisher's.
What happens if they are all on a shout and can not attend.

Get out, stay out is very good advise.

To many have ago hero's are now worm food.

Fire prevention department can.. if fact unless it's now changed we used to advice on extinguishers during home fire safety checks and before that.
HOWEVER we were not trained to a suitable standard to advise on specifics unless we're were promoted to FP department in my humble opinion.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

Fire prevention department can.. if fact unless it's now changed we used to advice on extinguishers during home fire safety checks and before that.
HOWEVER we were not trained to a suitable standard to advise on specifics unless we're were promoted to FP department in my humble opinion.

Home fire safety yes, but not type, coverage and positiong.
After 2008 a lot of the regualtions changed.
A lot did away with what the FB can or can not advise on.

I agree with their input
Get out stay out.
Let the traine people put it out.

 

[dan.taylor.1]

@The_Yellow_Ardvark Have you a source for reasonably priced extinguishers, just had a local firm quote me for 3 after a site visit to evaluate what I needed, and a quick google found them on amazon (quality questionable?) for a third the cost. Any help much appreciated as always.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

@The_Yellow_Ardvark Have you a source for reasonably priced extinguishers, just had a local firm quote me for 3 after a site visit to evaluate what I needed, and a quick google found them on amazon (quality questionable?) for a third the cost. Any help much appreciated as always.

PM in bound.

 

[winchman]

I also wondered about the universal ones that can be used on any fire?

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

I also wondered about the universal ones that can be used on any fire?

Universal one, what's that then?

 

[brightspark]

Universal one, what's that then?

one for all