Does this work like this ?

[Paul-n]

hi there

My trials and tribulations with MIG are here :-

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=13918

If I should abandon that welder will a TIG one be better ?

I want to weld bicycles so I am looking for 0.8mm to about 2mm [ bike frame bits ] with the odd 3mm , electric conduit and 1/16 or 1.5mm or 16 guage ms box.

Here they use a simple stick welder with good results :- http://www.atomiczombie.com/

I did a college night school many years ago and got proficient enough at oxy welding to rebuild a 2cv [ very thin metal ] and really enjoyed it.

Does TIG in TIG mode have the same feel i.e arc driven weld pool and you feed in the wire ? MIG does not seem to have this pleasure ?

So questions.

A basic TIG [ as Machine Mart ] comes as stick welder ? but what current size welds what thickness ?

If I go to TIG can I use the MIG wire , gas and regulator ?

The MIG has the following consumables :-
Wire
Gas
Tips

Where as the TIG would be ?

Stick Mode
Electrodes

TIG Mode
Gas
MM do not show the cost of the Tungston electrodes
Wire

regards Paul

 

[clem dog]

If you go to a tig welder you will be able to use the mig wire but not the gas as tig needs pure argon to stop the co2, in a mix, oxidising the tungsten as you weld. Tig would defo be good for that 0.8mm stuff where as arc would be a complete no no on that!

HTH Clem

 

[TheJoker]

Paul, it seems you've got some way to go on your quest to find the right one for you. I'm very new to doing my own welding, I have however, tried to keep a good eye on welding techniques since I was a kid.

I believe a good XYZ welder will do your welding well. Whereas a bad XYZ welder will do everything bad. But even with a good XYZ welder, you need to be fairly good at using it and that you know the pitfalls (Alu welding's pitfall is apparently clenliness, clenliness, and clenliness of the material).

What I'm trying to say is that regadless of what technique you choose, the welder needs to be of adequate quality, but regardless of quality you'll need to know what you're doing.

When it comes to MIG vs TIG, you should be able to do cycle frames just perfectly fine with MIG. However, IMO, TIG is pretty much the best technique out there. Not only does it weld "everything" (if you have AC/DC TIG), but I think the welds are very beautiful. I think it might be a bit of a waste of time/money to weld rusty body panels on a 1984 Ford Fiesta with a TIG.

With TIG welding, strictly the consumables are Argon and (sometimes) filler wire. The tungsten is more of a maintenance item, albeit can be quite high maintenance - especially for a noob like me!

I did some bad O/A welding when I was a kid, just to *rse around and I can say that the feeling to TIG is fairly similar. What the TIG doesn't have that the O/A has got is the blow from the flame, and the heat concentration is much tighter and more controllable. I sometimes feel like I'm "massaging" the metal to melt when I weld with my TIG. And on DC it's quite quiet too, no fizzing and popping like MIG.

Lovely!

 

[Angusdog]

From reading this thread, and your other one, it would appear to be the usual bumps in the foothills of the learning curve. I'm not expert, but based on what you've said, I think your bicycle emphasis means you need to concentrate on TIG. It has the control and ability you need for bikes, and for crucial structural welding, you need TIG.

Are you looking to make frames? In steel (chromoly) or aluminium? Aluminium will require, I believe, post-weld heat treatment which is an art in itself. However, if you're welding brackets etc to a frame, or repairing a dropout, then you may not need heat treatment. MTB frames in chromoly are a niche market, so you're probably on the mark there.

My advice is to try and find a TIG course. I'm doing a TIG & MIG course for the second time (1st time I concentrated on MIG, as I'd just got my MIG; this time I'm concentrating on TIG as I've just got an AC/DC TIG). It makes all the difference in the world. You learn how to weld, but also testing and appraising welds. You can draw on a lot of experience and it's superb value for money.

I also love reading How to weld damn near everything. Although it's wrapped in a West Coast Customs / Jesse James cover, it's actually a really good primer on all welding types with the emphasis on performance welding. Great bedtime reading, but also a lot of good knowledge. But it's a bit like learning cricket out of a book - someone standing behind you is essential. And don't be discouraged. I've been there, and you'll ride these bumps out and then be the 'Go to' guy for custom bike frames, guaranteed.

<edit> Having had a look at the site, you definitely want TIG. In fact, I don't really see how they could do that with stick unless they're stick welding gods who then became bike builders. The big disadvantage with MIG is once you pull the trigger, you're committed to welding with those settings. With TIG, you have more control during the weld.

 

[Paul-n]

Angusdog

Sadly our government killed all the night classes that people were doing purely for pleasure , I did one 30 years ago and we touched on all forms of welding.

Now you can only do exam classes most of which involve sitting down learning theory , health and safety etc instead of having a welder in your hand and cost more than the welder !

Will look into How to weld damn near everything.

Thank you all for your replies.

regards Paul