Does this board comply?

[Welderpaul]

As title. Board in a rental. Passed an EICR around 3 years ago but as the first 3 circuits are not protected by an RCD this would need replacing?

Cheers

 

[Endeleus]

First question - are you sure they aren't RCD connected? There could be a single busbar feeding the whole board from the RCD. From the labelling, it does look like a split load.

There's a label warning of old colour cables, so at least part of the installation pre-dates 2005 - I think the requirement for RCD on domestic lighting came in with 17th edition, but I don't do much domestic so my memory might be wrong.

For an EICR, if everything tests within tolerances, I would pass with a note that it adhered to the standards in place at the time of installation (after dusting off my 16th / 17th edition regs to double-check)

For a rental property, I would always strongly recommend upgrading to a modern board with RCBO's - stressing the safety and liability aspect. No legal obligation to replace, but I'd like to reduce the risk if I was the landlord.

 

[Welderpaul]

 

[Endeleus]

You might be thinking "why would anyone do that?" looking at the pic, but the rationale at the time was the lighting shouldn't be on the RCD so that the lights stay on if you plug something in to a socket that causes the RCD to trip.

Later versions of the regs balanced sockets and lighting across two RCDs for the same reason until RCBOs became affordable.

 

[Guineafowl]

View attachment 513011

Spark gap for surges

 

[Robotstar5]

You might be thinking "why would anyone do that?" looking at the pic, but the rationale at the time was the lighting shouldn't be on the RCD so that the lights stay on if you plug something in to a socket that causes the RCD to trip.

Later versions of the regs balanced sockets and lighting across two RCDs for the same reason until RCBOs became affordable.

As an industrial sparky I wasn't qualified to work on domestic stuff so if I had changed my CU back in the split board days I would have put the upstairs lights and downstairs sockets on one RCD and the downstairs lights and upstairs sockets on the other and used a high integrity board with the house alarm and workshop feed on non-RCD.

 

[Endeleus]

As an industrial sparky I wasn't qualified to work on domestic stuff so if I had changed my CU back in the split board days I would have put the upstairs lights and downstairs sockets on one RCD and the downstairs lights and upstairs sockets on the other and used a high integrity board with the house alarm and workshop feed on non-RCD.

Same, I always thought if you're plugging something in to a socket that trips the RCD, it's better to keep the lights on in the room you're in.

 

[JOEPRO]

One important thing is that old plastic consumer units like yours are technically out of date. Modern consumer boards are all metal construction for fire reasons.

Whilst I proactively upgraded my own consumer unit to metal recently, I don't think its required by law in existing domestic properties yet. But a rental property could be a different storey so best to check with someone qualified.

 

[Welderpaul]

£600 for a new board, testing, BC notification sound about right?

 

[Endeleus]

Sounds about right. I generally price a domestic CU replacement at £750 - £900 as I don’t like doing them, and don’t really want the work (that price would be for a Schneider Easy9 all RCBOs board). Someone who’s doing them as their bread and butter work would be cheaper, and some domestic sparks are happy working part-time to keep under the VAT threshold.

Edit: I price based on doing a full EICR before the CU change, so may be a couple of days on-site for that price.

 

[Happy Hacker]

For chapter and verse on the answer from the experts have a look at https://engx.theiet.org/f/wiring-and-regulations/31678/fail-eicr-because-of-partial-rcd-protection
Don't blame me if by the end you are not any wiser.

 

[Welderpaul]

Thanks chaps, all very helpful

 

[Welderpaul]

For chapter and verse on the answer from the experts have a look at https://engx.theiet.org/f/wiring-and-regulations/31678/fail-eicr-because-of-partial-rcd-protection
Don't blame me if by the end you are not any wiser.

This extract from the link is how the issue of the DB came about. There is a trip located upstairs specifically for the bathroom lights. The lights had failed (tenant never reported it) So when we got to the property there was a hunt for a problem which turned out to be the trip in the boiler cupboard. When the power to the property trips/fails, this breaker stays off, which will no doubt end up in a maintainance call. I was going to swap it for a fused spur but then there would be no protection.

Here is it.




For a periodic inspection (which results in an EICR) normally it is the current regulations that are used as a benchmark, regardless of the age of the installation. However not every non-conformity with the current regulations should result in an "fail" (unsatisfactory) result. Different things are graded differently - for instance a simple lack of 30mA RCD protection for domestic lighting circuits or soft sheathed cables concealed in walls would typically be coded C3 and not of itself result in an unsatisfactory outcome. However it's not always straight-forward - for instance the lack of RCD protection to bathroom lighting combined with a lack of supplementary bonding may result in a C2 (and an unsatisfactory outcome). So it not easy to say at a distance whether your inspector was entirely wrong or not (although I'd suspect a lack of clarity in explanation at the least).

 

[Happy Hacker]

Can't you use a passive (latched) RCD spur?

 

[Mark 5]

One important thing is that old plastic consumer units like yours are technically out of date. Modern consumer boards are all metal construction for fire reasons.

Whilst I proactively upgraded my own consumer unit to metal recently, I don't think its required by law in existing domestic properties yet. But a rental property could be a different storey so best to check with someone qualified.

My understanding is in a domestic household a plastic CU is still ok but if situated under a stairs, area should be fireboarded out.

For rental and commercial, consideration should be given to upgrading the CU to metal and RCBOs and maybe a requirement to bring all up to spec'.

 

[Welderpaul]

Can't you use a passive (latched) RCD spur?

Possibly yeah. The next EICR is due in just over 12 months so I may as well just change the board as said above. New metal board, RCBOs, SPD, up to date for another 5 years.
God knows why there are 5 radials for sockets. It's only a 3 bed terrace house.

 

[brightspark]

if its currently in test for few years just leave it. nothing wrong with it being plastic if the lightswitches are all; plastic its ok . unless you add new circuits then they need rcd protection.. if your feeling flush and no tennants in and doing it up stick a new metal twin rcd board in with surge protection .you can pick a bg 10 way populated board up cheap enough from screwfix

 

[Welderpaul]

Different property, but i'll stick it here. Had an EICR done today and there were a few C3's, and a nonsense C2 for some clips missing on a cable.
The wiring however is stranded and with green sleeving, dating the install to between 1966 and 1978, so between 59 and 47 years old.

The sockets are all singles, only 2 in each room, and mounted on the skirting so difficult to get moulded plugs into. Switches are at shoulder height, no interlinked smokes, and there's some ropey surface mounted nonsense going on all over. There is no cooker circuit as the cooker is gas, which i will be taking out. It does have a new metal board fitted a couple of years ago.

I'm going to do a full refurb on the house, rent it out, and have no intention of selling. It makes sense to fully rewire it rather than kick the can down the road and it be an issue in years to come.

It's a 2 bed terrace, 2 up, 2 down with a bathroom stuck out of the back in a 70's extension. I shall do all the work and let the electrician have the glory of signing it off

So. Circuit layout I was going to go for, in no particular order: 1. Cooker on a radial. 2. Lights up on a ring 3. Lights down on a ring. 4. Smokes. 5. Sockets up on a ring 6. Sockets down on a ring. Should kitchen sockets be on a seperate RCBO?
Boiler is a combi, so FCU off the sockets and no electric shower.

Are rings still in favour? I get the issue that a ring can break and the cable then be overloaded without it ever being apparent unless tested. Or can/should sockets and lights be on a radial?

Any thoughts?

 

[brightspark]

lights on radial circuits sockets on ring main cooker radial .no need for a seperate ring for kitchen as its only going to feed a couple of rooms down stairs. all should be rcd protected .smokes just conected in to one of the lighting circuits no need for them on there own circuit

 

[Endeleus]

Personally I only ever put radials in for new socket circuits, with my preference being 4mm cable on a 32A breaker rather than 2.5mm on a 20A. Kitchen sockets on a separate circuit is my preference. On a complete rewire I would give smoke alarms and boiler their own breaker, but perfectly fine on the lighting and sockets (via fcu) respectively.

Power draw from most lighting circuits is so low these days that there’s seldom need for a ring. One advantage of a radial is that something stops working in the event of a fault, rather than it going unnoticed for potentially the duration of a full tenancy - the other selfish reason being they’re quicker to test.