DIY central heating boiler change?

[sg66]

@sg66 I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Do you mean that the whole install, wet side, combustion side and knocking holes in a wall are soley the realm of a registered GasSafe plumber? I assume not as there are not enough in the UK to do that amount of work. As I said above I'm just trying to understand the demarcation lines so that I can talk to the Gassafe engineer with some understanding of the requirements.

No I was simply stating that those who believe they can call themselves competent are more than welcome to do what they like and then argue the case in court should it go wrong.

I have no doubt there are plenty on here who are more than capable I'm just not willing to put my name to something that I didn't do that could end up like the latest house to go bang in the news.

As is always pointed out there are good and bad trade folk in every profession and gas safe register will have it's share of them, but they are all traceable and covered by enforcement and can have no excuse when something goes wrong because they are registered and are supposed to be up-to-date with what they are doing and regulations.

 

[redlig]

I did a like for like (but updated) oil fired unit 12 years ago ,saved £ 1000.o using a mates trade account and arranged a set up via a local boiler man a mate knew. Checked it and set whatever he had to and charged £75.00 . As he arrived unexpectantly ,between jobs and in the vicinity, I had no cash so promised to have the cash the next day . he did the job left and I haven't seen him since . No idea of his name and my mate died 5 years ago. After about 7 or 8 years I gave up waiting and spent the £75.

 

[gaz1]

As is always pointed out there are good and bad trade folk in every profession and gas safe register will have it's share of them, but they are all traceable and covered by enforcement and can have no excuse when something goes wrong because they are registered and are supposed to be up-to-date with what they are doing and regulations.

traceable yes, enforcement NO

surprise spot checks not done so enforcement a waste of time
test is only for that day/days to check they are doing the work correctly and to the regulations whilst being tested

some are struck off the list previous work done by them is still unchecked and could be in a dangerous state unknown by homeowners
will homeowners be recompensated for work done by that gas safe registered person to make there system safe NO

are you insured for the work that has been carried out by that gas safe engineer nope will you ever see a payout made from gas safe not on your life

 

[DickyDoDah]

Much like an MoT then, only really valid until you remove the vehicle. However spot checks are done and dodgy testers punished,sometimes. The difference is that DVSA is a Govenment agency and the GasSafe register is run by a subsidary of Capita which was appointed by the HSE in 2009.

 

[CompoSimmonite]

traceable yes, enforcement NO

surprise spot checks not done so enforcement a waste of time
test is only for that day/days to check they are doing the work correctly and to the regulations whilst being tested

some are struck off the list previous work done by them is still unchecked and could be in a dangerous state unknown by homeowners
will homeowners be recompensated for work done by that gas safe registered person to make there system safe NO

are you insured for the work that has been carried out by that gas safe engineer nope will you ever see a payout made from gas safe not on your life

Friend of wife recently had a replacement boiler fitted. Bloke was Gas Safe registered. He was rude to customer, made a mess, left rubbish behind (not metal !), charged nearly £400 more than original quote, and screwed a piece of chipboard over hole left by old boiler and attached new to that, no divert valve, no room or tank thermostat and no timer. A couple of weeks later the friend had a leaking radiator so she got another plumber to fit that. New plumber was shocked at standard of work done by the first and recommended friend report poor installation to Gas Safe. She was then told they would send an independent person to assess and then instruct first plumber to correct problems. As she didn't want any further contact with the installer (he was that rude to her) no further action was taken.

 

[gerrymoore]

I did this about 12 years ago. I removed a very old boiler to replace with a Worcester combi. I did all the pipework (water and gas), I did the flue, I even put in new 22m pipe for the gas through the loft as, in our bungalow, the boiler is the opposite end to the gas meter. Got a gas safe engineer to come and check it all, connect the gas and certify it for £100. Still working fine after 12 years. Have to add that when I lived in Spain for 10 years I did a lot of gas and electric work as nobody cared about qulaifications!!

 

[sg66]

traceable yes, enforcement NO

surprise spot checks not done so enforcement a waste of time
test is only for that day/days to check they are doing the work correctly and to the regulations whilst being tested

some are struck off the list previous work done by them is still unchecked and could be in a dangerous state unknown by homeowners
will homeowners be recompensated for work done by that gas safe registered person to make there system safe NO

are you insured for the work that has been carried out by that gas safe engineer nope will you ever see a payout made from gas safe not on your life

If there is a clear risk, gas safe will investigate other work, gas safe is a registration and enforcement body, non of the work is done by them, they are not financially responsible for a business.

The police don't do enforcement untill a crime has been committed as it's a bit hard to do that before something has happened.

If a business is trading they will be made to put it right, if a business ceased trading then your going to have a job getting anything back, don't pick up known tradesmen for anything it's always a risk and not limited to gas fitters

 

[bricol]

As well as being competent you are legally required to be registered

AI Overview
View attachment 492034
+4

The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 (GSIUR) in Great Britain, and its corresponding regulations in Northern Ireland and the Isle of Man, mandate that gas engineers must be registered with the Gas Safe Register to legally carry out gas work.

Only if you are being paid to do it. If you do it for yourself, or as charity for someone else, then you don't. Again, all there in black and white. Which does of course mean as a business doing it, you do need to be on the register.

 

[bricol]

I hope Gas Safe is better than Corgi seemed to be - I discovered after my mum had someone in to work on her system that the company, displaying Corgi memnbership on vehicles and paperwork, wasn't actually registered with them.

On contacting Corgi . . ."oh, thanks . . ." Nothing happened . . .

 

[knighty]

as a side note... what about the loft instead of the garage?

 

[DickyDoDah]

as a side note... what about the loft instead of the garage?

I did consider the loft and in some ways it would be a better option as the existing boiler is in a bedroom. However the only position available is at the gable end the furthest from the loft hatch which makes it a real ball ache to crawl back and forth with all the parts needed. Also as the gas supply would have to be moved from the bedroom to the loft it would require scaffolding above the garage as it is a tile roof. The loft is well insulated so would be almost as cold as the garage so no great advantage. The intention is to insulate the garage as my son wants to use it as a gym. The garage already has a gas pipe running through it which is a plus and there is also a water supply and easy access to the hot water pipes. The only issue I still have to work out is where the condensate will drain to but as that is just 21.5mm plastic pipe I'm sure I can find a way. It might be a long run though so I need to check the regs on that one.

 

[Mark 5]

I did consider the loft and in some ways it would be a better option as the existing boiler is in a bedroom. However the only position available is at the gable end the furthest from the loft hatch which makes it a real ball ache to crawl back and forth with all the parts needed.

If you mean '' crawl '' then you wouldn't be allowed to install in a loft.

 

[DickyDoDah]

If you mean '' crawl '' then you wouldn't be allowed to install in a loft.

It's not a modern low pitch roof and it is sort of possible to walk hunched over but not what I would call convienient access so that's one of the many reasons I chose to go the garage route.
I'm currently looking at all the restrictions on condensate drains and this looks like a stumbling block as it will be all the way from the front of the house to the rear, about 7/8m through the garage. This seems to be prohibited as it's regarded as external (possibly). I reckon that If I put a sink in the garage with 40mm drain and tap the condensate into that I will be able to comply as the condensate drain will only be about 1m before it enters the sanitary waste.

 

[DickyDoDah]

Or it seems a condensate pump is acceptable.

 

[Mark 5]

It's not a modern low pitch roof and it is sort of possible to walk hunched over but not what I would call convienient access so that's one of the many reasons I chose to go the garage route.
I'm currently looking at all the restrictions on condensate drains and this looks like a stumbling block as it will be all the way from the front of the house to the rear, about 7/8m through the garage. This seems to be prohibited as it's regarded as external (possibly). I reckon that If I put a sink in the garage with 40mm drain and tap the condensate into that I will be able to comply as the condensate drain will only be about 1m before it enters the sanitary waste.

Or it seems a condensate pump is acceptable.

Yes you can do either, I think I would go for the sink drain option.

Why can't you install a combi in the kitchen?

 

[DickyDoDah]

Why can't you install a combi in the kitchen?

It's an option I've looked at but as it's a fitted kitchen it would be very disruptive as well as a lot more work. I was thinking that the sink & drain option would be a good bet but my son can see no use for a sink in the garage as it's so close to the kitchen and when I looked around for a condensate pump it's actually a cheaper option than buying a sink, taps etc. which was a surprise.

 

[sg66]

Only if you are being paid to do it. If you do it for yourself, or as charity for someone else, then you don't. Again, all there in black and white. Which does of course mean as a business doing it, you do need to be on the register.

Good luck with that defence in court if it goes wrong.

Your going to have to prove you were component and if it went wrong you weren't, I'm not sure how your going to get the appliance registered and get a building control certificate

Like I said earlier I don't care and it's not work I would be willing to put my name to.

 

[sg66]

Yes you can do either, I think I would go for the sink drain option.

Why can't you install a combi in the kitchen?

Can you not fit a soakaway condensate kit if it's on an outside wall ?

 

[DickyDoDah]

Can you not fit a soakaway condensate kit if it's on an outside wall ?

Unfortunatley it's a concrete driveway and I don't fancy digging it up

 

[sg66]

Unfortunatley it's a concrete driveway and I don't fancy digging it up

Core drill, if your going through the wall, drive is easy