disposable gas question

[christofloffer]

i just tried to set up the aluminium stuff on my mig and i'm not getting any gas. its a disposable bottle and a regulator with no gauge.
i can hear the gas washing around in the bottle and its only had a little bit of use so there should be plenty left. i checked the welder and the valve is working and i got my little brother to see if he could feel anything coming out at the torch while i blew down the pipe, which he could. so its ok on that end.
so its got to be down to the regulator. its threaded on as far as it will go, the pipe is pushed in as far as it will go, and nothing comes out even with the regulator opened right up, just not charging the line. so i tried opening it up with no pipe attached (outside of course) but it wouldnt even vent then. i tried giving the regulator a tap around in case it was just a bit sticky but i can hear the seals moving when i open/close the valve.

so, can i remove the regulator from a disposable bottle before its empty and not lose all the gas that is left?
if i can then at least i could check the regulator over without the gas to consider. its a clarke gas bottle if that is any help.

its rather annoying as i only have it for this chair project. i dont really want to be buying another regulator for disposable bottles as i want to be going on to big bottles next. so if i can get the use of this bottle i will be happy. or maybe there is adaptors to take a big regulator down to a disposable fitting that i could get and invest in a proper regulator? i know there are adaptors to take the outlet down to small pipe but i havent seen one that takes the tank end to a disposable bottle end.

 

[wyn]

The disposable bottles and regulators are a bit "hit and miss"...you can get good ones and bad ones.

Sometimes the regulator will not screw on far enough to depress the pin in the bottle.

You can remove the regulator off the bottle with no problems.

If you can here something swishing around in the bottle it could be CO2....you need pure argon to mig weld aluminium.

The noise from the bottle could also be because it's empty and the sealing pin in the end of the bottles tend to rattle about a bit when empty.

 

[christofloffer]

its pure argon, the noise is faint but its there. its not like when you shake a propane bottle and you can hear it swishing, its really quiet. unless of course like the other clarke consumables i have come across lately its just bad.

i will take the regulator off and see if it is not working. i could see the insides moving from removing the blanked off side exit. i will take that out again and see if it stuck. at least now i know i wont just empty the bottle if i take it off its worth looking. thanks for that.
i know its maybe a bit paranoid but gas and containers make me cautious, and i reckon that is probably a good thing.

 

[christofloffer]

ok just had a look and a fiddle. it may be empty, the noise i could hear before was the pin in the bottle and the seals in the regulator.

the regulator seems to be seized, the knob is turning but nothing is happening inside. the pin is not moving and with the sides taken out i cant see anything else moving either. i gave it a tap around with a hammer and still nothing. i got a nail in a vice and set the height on the pin so that the regulator was flat on the top, then opened/closed it and it didnt lift off the vice even a fraction of a mm. i dont know why it has seized, must just be naff quality. but if it has done that then i cant tell if it has slowly leaked out the remainder of the bottle since i put it away.

going to have to get another regulator and bottle of gas to finish the job. i still have a damn near full reel of ally wire. if that last bit did indeed use the whole bottle then i would need about 30 bottles before the wire was gone!

 

[wyn]

When i was using disposable bottles on a small clarke mig i even used to unscrew the regulator from the bottle between welds to try and stop it all leaking away.

 

[MoreWellie]

the symptom you describe does sound like the regulator as this happened to my original Clarke regulator and even more quickly to the ebay replacement I got but......

If you could hear the pin rattling in the bottle when you shook it after taking the regulator off then the bottle is empty as otherwise the pressure holds the pin up to stop the gas coming out so it may be worth trying a new gas bottle first

I must have been lucky with my regulator to bottle joint as I never took mine off and the gas stayed between welding sessions. I tried taking it off but the gas wastage as it came off put me off that idea so I just closed the regulator down and left it on

if you are having to buy new bottles as well then check out the rent free prices local to you as the chances are you will be better off with a bigger rent free bottle and gauge rather than the disposables especially if you have much more ally welding to do

 

[ibrooks]

When i was using disposable bottles on a small clarke mig i even used to unscrew the regulator from the bottle between welds to try and stop it all leaking away.

I used to do that too. I'm convinced that half the horror stories about how little welding time you get out of the hobby bottles are down to them being left connected and the valves in the welders allowing the gas to leak away whilst the welder isn't being used. Certainly larger bottles are cheaper but the hobby ones always lasted me far longer than people tend to suggest (I've also made my quick disconnect system so that I can easily revert to a hobby bottle if I want to take the welder out and about).

Iain

 

[christofloffer]

well, we just went through the in's and outs of it. i have some TIG to do at a friends place which will involve learning that and then work for it. so its going to be better to wait and sort out with him to get a proper rented bottle of argon then if i need to do stuff i can either borrow the bottle or take the stuff to the shop. i could soon make use of gas here but more for steel so i would need mix, and that would be more use here.
so its just going to be abandoned for the time being. while i have lots of ideas for ally, the TIG would be better all round so i am just going to put the wire back in the cupboard and forget it. its too expensive to mess with just to have a play. the last thing i want to do is buy a new regulator only to get another naff one. its best to wait and get a proper set up.