Diesel from waste plastic

[rtbcomp]

When my father worked at Napier’s in the late ‘30s & 40s they were experimenting with running on coal dust. They would run fine, but the abrasive qualities of the dust caused major problems apparently

I can believe that. Going off at even more of a tangent, Tomorrows World featured an engine that ran on dried bacteria. IIRC the fed the bacteria on sewage, dried it out and fed it into an engine.

 

[merryman]

It costs more to get oil from plastic than it does to get it out of the ground.

I wonder though whether they count just the cost of processing and not the cost saved in having to dispose of the plastic.

Why turn it into oil, then burn it, cheapest and easiest way of disposing of it, and using it (and paper) is to burn it in power stations. However environmentalists hate that idea and have successfully kicked up enough trouble to stop most of the "waste incineration" schemes in the UK. Someone on here will answer me claiming toxic pollution in the waste gasses, however this doesn't seem to be a problem in the few stations that have gone ahead.

 

[julianf]

Just burning waste simply increases carbon emissions.

Converting plastics into portable fuel arguably reduces emissions slightly, and deals with a waste product at the same time.

 

[mr migwire]

the problem is we are told not to polute and warned about the dangers of releasing all the nasty gasses into the atmosphere but whith a bit of research you find that on avaerage per year volcanoes release between 180 - 440 million tons, and thats just the co2 you then have sulfur dioxide, hydrogen sulfide and hydrogen halides in decent quantities, it becomes clear that all the carbon capture etc we as a race attempt is negated by mother nature. dont get me wrong i am all for recyling etc as we owe it to the future generations to try and leave them something atleast resembling a habitable planet but why not use the fringe technology to recyle whether it be by burning or super heating to extract usable fuels etc, ( ps i do not wear flip flops and a caftan or have any siblings called sunbeam or moon child)

 

[fizzy]

Why turn it into oil, then burn it, cheapest and easiest way of disposing of it, and using it (and paper) is to burn it in power stations. However environmentalists hate that idea and have successfully kicked up enough trouble to stop most of the "waste incineration" schemes in the UK. Someone on here will answer me claiming toxic pollution in the waste gasses, however this doesn't seem to be a problem in the few stations that have gone ahead.

Try living by one.
There used to be one running in Swansea. The smell was terrible - made me feel quite ill. Then they took to running it at night hoping they could get away with it.
It was shut down thankfully.

As you drive into Swansea you are hit with 2 really really bad smells. Right by the flagship new university!
One is from Welsh Water's state of the art sewage treatment plant. It used to be great - no smells at all. Then they decided to burn off the methane to generate electricity. Now the stench is unbearable. They do nothing about it despite there being loads of houses nearby.

The other stench is mainly in spring and summer. The council had a wonderful idea. Rather than bury rubbish and let it rot in the ground they now let it rot in the open air first! That reduces how many cubic metres go into their own landfill and don't pay so much tax! Of course in other countries they just massage the figures to the EU but not British councils!

 

[rtbcomp]

Why turn it into oil, then burn it, cheapest and easiest way of disposing of it, and using it (and paper) is to burn it in power stations. However environmentalists hate that idea and have successfully kicked up enough trouble to stop most of the "waste incineration" schemes in the UK. Someone on here will answer me claiming toxic pollution in the waste gasses, however this doesn't seem to be a problem in the few stations that have gone ahead.

A professor was interviewed on the radio and he said exactly the same, by the time you've finished faffing about collecting, sorting and processing you might as well just get the energy from it.

Just burning waste simply increases carbon emissions.

Converting plastics into portable fuel arguably reduces emissions slightly, and deals with a waste product at the same time.

That's my preferred approach. Perhaps the plastics industry needs to look at developing materials that can be easily converted into oil and/or incinerated without causing too much pollution.

 

[merryman]

Converting plastics into portable fuel arguably reduces emissions slightly

Why? The OP quoted the makers use "some of the gas" to make the oil and gas, then you burn the oil and gas afterwards.

 

[fizzy]

Very little of the plastic we use actually gets recycled. All the people carefully separating their waste. Then our councils shove it all into shipping containers and send it to China. They fine you if you don't recycle of course.

There is a place in Britain that could take all this waste. And nuclear waste as well.
It would be totally safe.
Gone for ever.
But will they allow it? No don't be silly.

The place is the Boulby potash mine. It is huge - vast. I have been down there a few times in the past. There are currently about 600 miles of tunnels reaching out under the North Sea - but they dig far more. It is incredibly deep. Almost 5,000 feet down! Temps get very nasty as you are getting closer to mantel. Some tunnels are 50 or 60C. Many tunnels will close up after a few months - the immense pressures squeeze the top and bottom back together. Perfect for burying waste.

There is also a dark matter research lab down there and they test lunar rovers as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boulby_Mine

 

[fizzy]

One of the smaller tunnels - many are big enough to drive 2x 44 tonners side by side!

 

[fizzy]

 

[brewdexta]

the problem is we are told not to polute and warned about the dangers of releasing all the nasty gasses into the atmosphere but whith a bit of research you find that on avaerage per year volcanoes release between 180 - 440 million tons, and thats just the co2 you then have sulfur dioxide, hydrogen sulfide and hydrogen halides in decent quantities, it becomes clear that all the carbon capture etc we as a race attempt is negated by mother nature. dont get me wrong i am all for recyling etc as we owe it to the future generations to try and leave them something atleast resembling a habitable planet but why not use the fringe technology to recyle whether it be by burning or super heating to extract usable fuels etc, ( ps i do not wear flip flops and a caftan or have any siblings called sunbeam or moon child)

According to the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS), the world’s volcanoes, both on land and undersea, generate about 200 million tons of carbon dioxide (CO2) annually, while our automotive and industrial activities cause some 24 billion tons of CO2 emissions every year worldwide. Greenhouse gas emissions from volcanoes comprise less than one percent of those generated by today’s human endeavors.

I forget the other gas quantities but water vapour is the main component of eruptions.

 

[Cobbler]

When my father worked at Napier’s in the late ‘30s & 40s they were experimenting with running on coal dust. They would run fine, but the abrasive qualities of the dust caused major problems apparently

Returning to my post above, it’s only a guess, but oil was a difficult imported product during the war & everyone was looking for alternative fuels to save petrol & diesel for the war effort. Coal & coal dust we would have available.

 

[reb78]

I often wonder what Rudolf Diesel would think about what happened to his engine design which was originally designed to run on nut oil!

I am trying to make sure this continues - landy runs on sunflower/rapeseed oil for at least 6 months of the year! Rapeseed is noticeably better, but seems harder to get consistently.

On the topic of plastics - we've got to do something about them, but they are in every bit of our lives and almost impossible to avoid! I was walking on the beach the other day and there is so much/many tiny bits of plastic rubbish washing on the shore every time a wave breaks!

 

[julianf]

Why? The OP quoted the makers use "some of the gas" to make the oil and gas, then you burn the oil and gas afterwards.

Because the energy input needed for drilling, distillation, transport etc is vast.

If you have a raw material on site, even if you do have to crack it, you (as I said, arguably, and probably not with the current economies of scale, but with further development...) save on all the ancillary 'costs'.

Not to mention the balance of payments deficit, and all the wars and dodgey foreign policy that go along with crude oil.

 

[steviec_lj]

Very little of the plastic we use actually gets recycled. All the people carefully separating their waste. Then our councils shove it all into shipping containers and send it to China. They fine you if you don't recycle of course.

Not quite, China stopped taking waste months ago, ina bid to go green.

Look up Luxus or CleanTech, that’s a couple to get you going.

Councils sort the waste, anything up to 300mm goes for RDF abroad due to the number of NIMBY’s in the U.K.

Hard plastics are granulated and sold back in to the Plastics trade.
Soft plastic is turned into either sheet or granule, again sold back into the trade.
Cardboard is shredded, and sold back in to the trade too.

Anything above 300mm, is shredded until it can be baled, then it goes for RDF.

Big business in the U.K., but we have to sell it abroad due to the loopholes you have to jump through to make ANYTHING from recyclables.

 

[tom 748]

have to get a new microwave then lol

 

[fizzy]

Not quite, China stopped taking waste months ago, ina bid to go green.

Look up Luxus or CleanTech, that’s a couple to get you going.

Councils sort the waste, anything up to 300mm goes for RDF abroad due to the number of NIMBY’s in the U.K.

Hard plastics are granulated and sold back in to the Plastics trade.
Soft plastic is turned into either sheet or granule, again sold back into the trade.
Cardboard is shredded, and sold back in to the trade too.

Anything above 300mm, is shredded until it can be baled, then it goes for RDF.

Big business in the U.K., but we have to sell it abroad due to the loopholes you have to jump through to make ANYTHING from recyclables.

Yes just a few months ago. Plenty still gets shipped to other EU countries who then ship it to the far East.
I know there are plastic recycling firms in the UK. I have bought stockbord which is recycled.

 

[Burdekin]

Just watch an American news article on a Company called Renewlogy.

Owner Priyanka Bakaya, has developed a process to convert wast plastic into Diesel and a flamable gas (80/20%
The gas used to partly power the plant. She reckons its almost 100% conversion

The plastic is probably made from hydrocarbons in the first place.

 

[Burdekin]

It's a long shot but do you know who the guy on the far left is? Man he looks like my old flat mate and training partner. Last time I heard from him he was living in the Hague, but he did work in HR in the mines in Oz.

 

[The_Yellow_Ardvark]

China rejected a lot of out "Recycled" waste. On the simple grounds it was not properly sorted and graded. Their plants are set up to handle the waste when it is graded. They don't have the time to sort our rubbish out.

Wiltshire council was terrible in the 1990's. Invested in a can bailer. Would crush cans into a 1toone bale. But the Muppets made no arrangements to spate the ferrous from Non ferrous cans, so not many places would take them.

The NIMBY's made a such a complaint about a glass recycling place, it closed.

Same with a cement works near me, used to burn waste tyre, liquid recycle fuels. The NIMBY's made such a fuss about pollution being found miles away. Later discredited and so open to questionable sources. That issue and the fact the same fools stopped the site from expanding, the owners stuck 2 fingers up and closed the site.

We need to have a look at what type, how much and were we use plastic. Classic example. Loo seat from B&Q.
Plastic wrapped box.
Seat wrapped in plastic.
Fixings in plastic bags, wrapped in plastic.
Instructions wrapped in plastic.

Since new regulations have come into force a lot of plastics can be recycled, just a lot of products have mixed type. This makes it costly to separate and recycle.

Plus in the UK we never got on top or into the swing of recycling, even now we are 20 years behind Germany, at least 5 years behind Grease.

So we don't have the infrastructure to recycle and when we build plants the NIMBY's are up in arms.

Rant over.
Going to a junk shop.